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The behaviour of US police officers

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SuburbanTurkey said:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/video-mario-gonzalez-death-police-alameda-california_n_608897cfe4b046202700c835

Cops kneeled on this man's back for over 5 minutes until he went unresponsive and had no pulse. He later died at the hospital. Body cam footage contradicts statement given by police in their reports.

The tactics used by Chauvin to murder Floyd were only a more extreme version of the very common police use of extended, face down restraints that place people in extreme danger. Police have known for decades about the dangers of this practice and continue to use them, with disastrous consequences to the public.
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The cops are so obsessed with cuffing him to the back, that they even kept the cuffs there as they were doing CPR.

Large males with big shoulders are a struggle to cuff to the back, so why not cuff to the front? The male was not being threatening in any way and cuffed to the front still gives a lot of control.

Whether or not Einstein said it, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" sums up perfectly the insanity of the police who repeatedly fail to learn about the risk of positional asphyxia.
 
Nessie said:
The cops are so obsessed with cuffing him to the back, that they even kept the cuffs there as they were doing CPR.

Large males with big shoulders are a struggle to cuff to the back, so why not cuff to the front? The male was not being threatening in any way and cuffed to the front still gives a lot of control.

Whether or not Einstein said it, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" sums up perfectly the insanity of the police who repeatedly fail to learn about the risk of positional asphyxia.
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It's not that they fail to learn, it's that they are not experiencing the consequences of the risky situations they create.

Some have speculated that the Chauvin murder will be a watershed moment for how police brutality will be handled. I remain deeply skeptical of that. Here's a perfect test case. Cops killed this person through needlessly dangerous and prolonged restraint, in a way that is very similar, though admittedly not as extreme, as the Chauvin example.

Not expecting any meaningful accountability for these killer cops, but would love to be wrong about this.
 
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One thing that I think would help a lot is more accountability for falsifying the police report. That's such an important point of transparency of authority that I think people that are found in clear violation should be barred from working as law enforcement ever again. Honestly reporting the situation and your actions should be practically a commandment.
 
Nessie said:
According to Inquest it is an average of 37 deaths in custody a year in England and Wales alone;

https://www.inquest.org.uk/deaths-in-police-custody

Add that to shootings and it is 39 a year. Add in Scotland and NI and those figures will be in the 40s, double your claim.
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So in the 40s. That per head of population compared to the USA would be about 200 or so (UK 65 million population, USA 330 million). Compared to any other civilized western democracy the USA police service kills its civilian population it is sworn to serve and protect at a far higher rate. Nothing you have argued disproves that conclusion.
 
Parsman said:
So in the 40s. That per head of population compared to the USA would be about 200 or so (UK 65 million population, USA 330 million). Compared to any other civilized western democracy the USA police service kills its civilian population it is sworn to serve and protect at a far higher rate. Nothing you have argued disproves that conclusion.
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It was an argument based on a study by the Home Office, which made a point of ensuring they were comparing like with like as much as possible. So the deaths whereby the USA is 5 times higher than the UK, reduces to less when like is compared to like.

The study is here;

https://assets.publishing.service.g...dy_A_review_of_the_international_evidence.pdf

The results of the study are;

USA - 1
Scotland - 0.84
E & W - 0.73
New Zealand - 0.65
Australia - 0.32
Sweden - 0.29
Norway - 0.23
Germany - 0.14

That is why I said, accurately, that according to that study, the USA is top of the league, rather than an outlier.
 
gnome said:
One thing that I think would help a lot is more accountability for falsifying the police report. That's such an important point of transparency of authority that I think people that are found in clear violation should be barred from working as law enforcement ever again. Honestly reporting the situation and your actions should be practically a commandment.
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It should be considered perjury.

ETA: And perjury by a public official in an official capacity should be considered a more serious crime due to the abuse of trust and power
 
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Nessie said:
It was an argument based on a study by the Home Office, which made a point of ensuring they were comparing like with like as much as possible. So the deaths whereby the USA is 5 times higher than the UK, reduces to less when like is compared to like.

The study is here;

https://assets.publishing.service.g...dy_A_review_of_the_international_evidence.pdf

The results of the study are;

USA - 1
Scotland - 0.84
E & W - 0.73
New Zealand - 0.65
Australia - 0.32
Sweden - 0.29
Norway - 0.23
Germany - 0.14

That is why I said, accurately, that according to that study, the USA is top of the league, rather than an outlier.
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To come up with those numbers, the study must simply ignore hundreds of people simply shot and killed by US police.

Over 1,000 are shot and killed each year.
 
Nessie said:
It was an argument based on a study by the Home Office, which made a point of ensuring they were comparing like with like as much as possible. So the deaths whereby the USA is 5 times higher than the UK, reduces to less when like is compared to like.

The study is here;

https://assets.publishing.service.g...dy_A_review_of_the_international_evidence.pdf

The results of the study are;

USA - 1
Scotland - 0.84
E & W - 0.73
New Zealand - 0.65
Australia - 0.32
Sweden - 0.29
Norway - 0.23
Germany - 0.14

That is why I said, accurately, that according to that study, the USA is top of the league, rather than an outlier.
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How good are your numbers, a lot of deaths in police custody or from police action simply go unrecorded in the US.
 
Yeah I can't speak for the UK but as far as the US is concerned this like trying to figure out if Enron or Worldcom made more profit by looking at their public records.
 
The Don said:
To come up with those numbers, the study must simply ignore hundreds of people simply shot and killed by US police.

Over 1,000 are shot and killed each year.
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In that respect the USA is the outlier. Otherwise, UK deaths in custody are worrying high when international comparisons are made.
 
gnome said:
One thing that I think would help a lot is more accountability for falsifying the police report. That's such an important point of transparency of authority that I think people that are found in clear violation should be barred from working as law enforcement ever again. Honestly reporting the situation and your actions should be practically a commandment.
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jimbob said:
It should be considered perjury.

ETA: And perjury by a public official in an official capacity should be considered a more serious crime due to the abuse of trust and power
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Maybe also obstruction of justice and/or conspiracy in whatever crime might be being covered up?
 
That's the problem.

Since LEOs perform a special role in society, a lot of criminal charges don't exactly fit.

In some case we are going to need specific laws tailored to criminal behavior by LEOs.
 
Nessie said:
In that respect the USA is the outlier. Otherwise, UK deaths in custody are worrying high when international comparisons are made.
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You're missing the point. The point is that the numbers are useless garbage that don't need to be re-vomited into this thread
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
https://twitter.com/Scot_Blog/status/1387098556880850947

The man was arrested after posting an anti-police meme on social media.

Rather than just being the normal idiocy of local police, apparently the TBI and the local DA both were also involved in this joint task force "investigation" that lead up to the blatantly illegal arrest.

Internal correspondence reveals that the police involved knew what they were doing was unconstitutional:

https://horwitz.law/wp-content/uploads/Complaint-of-Joshua-Garton-and-Exhibits-1-4.pdf

https://lawandcrime.com/crazy/constitutionally-illiterate-tennessee-authorities-arrest-man-for-posting-an-anti-police-meme-on-social-media/

Contempt of cop remains the most serious crime you can commit in this country.
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They really are stupid cops and prosecutors, aren't they. :mad:
 
gnome said:
One thing that I think would help a lot is more accountability for falsifying the police report. That's such an important point of transparency of authority that I think people that are found in clear violation should be barred from working as law enforcement ever again. Honestly reporting the situation and your actions should be practically a commandment.
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This ^ definitely.
 
JoeMorgue said:
That's the problem.



Since LEOs perform a special role in society, a lot of criminal charges don't exactly fit.



In some case we are going to need specific laws tailored to criminal behavior by LEOs.
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"Rule of law" sure seems to have a lot of exceptions.
 
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