Hillary Clinton says Tulsi Gabbard is a 'Russian asset'

I'm pretty convinced that the accusation was mostly driven by spite. Clinton is still pissed that Gabbard endorsed Bernie in 2016. This doesn't discount the possibility of russian trolls floating internet ads and memes in support of Gabbards, they might be just to cause trouble. That's kind of what they do.

Why would Hillary Clinton even care about what Tulsi Gabbard did? Gabbard's basically a nobody compared to even newcomers like Raps. Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, and the like.

As to the meaning of "Asset" am I the only one who thinks its vague enough to mean either a witting or unwitting asset? Thus, its use by Hillary is....not great but vague enough, I'm not going to say she mean "literally working for the Russians"?

She never called Gabbard an asset, so that's of no relevance. She called Jill Stein an asset, probably because of the dinner table she shared with Putin, her recount fundraiser that went nowhere, and so forth.

I've thought the same, and so did many others.
 
Right, he's the former Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan. My bad! Nowadays he's mostly described as a neo-nazi, anti-semitic conspiracy theorist.

I wouldn't even say that earning praise from him alone is necessarily a mark of poor character. Duke's a fringe character, and ordinarily I'd dismiss praise from him based on sketchy connections.

But there's also Richard Spencer, and Steve Bannon, and again her multiple appearances on Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour. That last one, in particular, makes me very cautious. Quite a few of these so-called progressives are annoyingly cozy with white nationalists because "they also hate war" or some such. As examples, Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore. This sort of crap is toxic for democrats, since their strongest supporters are black and Jewish voters, both of whom have strong reasons to recoil from white nationalists and their supporters.
 
You forgot "humble to a fault"

Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and letting themselves be paralyzed are legitimate faults of the Dems. That's not a humble brag.

But the Dems are so much better by every metric than the GOP, of course those are better faults than those of the latter. Did you think I would care that you took offense? I'll openly say that currently the GOP and their supporters are actively disdainful of even basic civic duty. I'm not going to be shamed that you think those flaws aren't faulty enough.
 
I wouldn't even say that earning praise from him alone is necessarily a mark of poor character. Duke's a fringe character, and ordinarily I'd dismiss praise from him based on sketchy connections.

But there's also Richard Spencer, and Steve Bannon, and again her multiple appearances on Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour. That last one, in particular, makes me very cautious. Quite a few of these so-called progressives are annoyingly cozy with white nationalists because "they also hate war" or some such. As examples, Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore. This sort of crap is toxic for democrats, since their strongest supporters are black and Jewish voters, both of whom have strong reasons to recoil from white nationalists and their supporters.

She cancelled an event almost last minute to go on Carlson too.

She just does not act like someone trying to get the Democratic nomination. Her politics don't have a coherent argument. Note that even the 'hate war' thing isn't even complete because she's not against the continued use of military force in the places she hasn't deemed 'regime change wars', even though she labels some things that demonstrably aren't as the latter.
 
She never called Gabbard an asset, so that's of no relevance.


Hillary Clinton said:
"I'm not making any predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who is currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. She's the favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far. And that's assuming Jill Stein will give it up, which she might not, because she's also a Russian asset."

Is Jill Stein 'also' a Russian asset apart from some other personal characteristic (ie, she's a third-party candidate and also a Russian asset) or is Jill Stein 'also' a Russian asset apart from the unnamed Democratic primary candidate that is being supported by Russia?
 
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I really don't. Your links either talk about ideal assets, or speak more generally and in a way which agrees with your opponents, or even mention unwitting assets. You shot yourself in the foot, there.

Can you quote the relevant parts, because I just looked over it all again, and I don't see anything in my links about "unwitting assets" (besides the post 2016 stuff, which I linked to just to prove that it was a brand new use of the word.)
 
Tucker Carlson, well yeah, he seems to be among the sanest Yankistanis. A miracle why he is allowed to be a top host on Faux News. But there he is with Tulsi (a real association contrary to the one with Duke):


btw, as an admtted reader of the Daily Stormer, I can tell you that the bit about calling Tulsi "mommy" is junk as well. They do call Warren and Harris the two mommies they don't want to have. And they imagine a Tucker Carlson/Tulsi Gabbard ticket for 2024, which would be their paradise. And frankly I wouldn't object to that, but you already know how evil I am.
 
People forget one simple fact.

Words don't have fixed meanings, they only have usages.

Normally I'm very agnostic on the morphing on language over time, but this is a really dangerous sort of misuse of the word "asset".

Under this new definition of the word "asset", all the Vietnam protesters were "Soviet assets". Anyone who effectively opposes war with Iran is an "Iranian asset". Etc and so on.

This new use just sort of slipped under the radar before now, because it started with speculation that Trump was a "Russian asset", and originally, people were meaning it in the "Russia has blackmail material on him and can control him with it" sense. Then, when that didn't pan out evidence-wise, they didn't just let it go, but started to just re-tool the word asset to expand the definition to more and more people, including the "unwitting" aspect, which is completely contrary to the pre-Russiagate definition.
 
Yes, a useful idiot can be just as much (even more) an asset as someone that is on the payroll.

Were Vietnam protesters "useful idiots" of the USSR?

Does the level of "idiocy" matter in determining whether or not someone's an "asset"?
 
Did you check out Kelly's fourth link? It dates back to last year and it's very clear about the use of the term for unwitting people.

You are WRONG.

My whole point was that this new definition is STRICTLY a byproduct of Russiagate.

"Asset" had a very specific meaning before that, and only NOW post-Russiagate does it include people who "unwittingly" do things Russia might like.
 
My whole point was that this new definition is STRICTLY a byproduct of Russiagate.

"Asset" had a very specific meaning before that, and only NOW post-Russiagate does it include people who "unwittingly" do things Russia might like.


This is Kelly's point, so far no evidence against it. Which is a bit like Tulsi's point against the US foreign policy that serves nothing but "Empire". And the guilt-by-association smears are as dumb in the broader Tulsi scenario as they are in the ISF scenario. Kelly is incapable of making me stop endorsing her posts on these obvious falsehoods. Which doesn't make her guilty of my ... the fact that this has to be pointed out on a forum allegedly devoted to critical thinking is sad.
 
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Updated political spectrum.
 

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Were Vietnam protesters "useful idiots" of the USSR?

Does the level of "idiocy" matter in determining whether or not someone's an "asset"?

Maybe. I'm not a big fan of using the term in reference to Gabbard. It's probably more accurate to describe her and Stein as unwitting accomplices.
 
Maybe. I'm not a big fan of using the term in reference to Gabbard. It's probably more accurate to describe her and Stein as unwitting accomplices.


If the thing one wants to accomplish is stopping the largest military machine in history from ruling the planet. Which is something Tulsi, Kelly, me, Trump, Greta Thunberg and Putin (who rules a defensive military machine far lesser than a tenth of what is threatening his people) agree upon as a goal.
 
If the thing one wants to accomplish is stopping the largest military machine in history from ruling the planet. Which is something Tulsi, Kelly, me, Trump, Greta Thunberg and Putin (who rules a defensive military machine far lesser than a tenth of what is threatening his people) agree upon as a goal.

BS. Putin's defensive military machine invaded Crimea. Hardly defensive.
 
BS. Putin's defensive military machine invaded Crimea. Hardly defensive.

Well, there probably was some element of defense at play there. See:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/arti...sian-president-putin-took-crimea-from-ukraine

The question of why Putin took this step is of more than historical interest. Understanding his motives for occupying and annexing Crimea is crucial to assessing whether he will make similar choices in the future—for example, sending troops to “liberate” ethnic Russians in the Baltic states—just as it is key to determining what measures the West might take to deter such actions.

Three plausible interpretations of Putin’s move have emerged.

The first—call it “Putin as defender”—is that the Crimean operation was a response to the threat of NATO’s further expansion along Russia’s western border. By this logic, Putin seized the peninsula to prevent two dangerous possibilities: first, that Ukraine’s new government might join NATO, and second, that Kiev might evict Russia’s Black Sea Fleet from its long-standing base in Sevastopol.

A second interpretation—call it “Putin as imperialist”—casts the annexation of Crimea as part of a Russian project to gradually recapture the former territories of the Soviet Union. Putin never accepted the loss of Russian prestige that followed the end of the Cold War, this argument suggests, and he is determined to restore it, in part by expanding Russia’s borders.

A third explanation—“Putin as improviser”—rejects such broader designs and presents the annexation as a hastily conceived response to the unforeseen fall of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. The occupation and annexation of Crimea, in this view, was an impulsive decision that Putin stumbled into rather than the careful move of a strategist with geopolitical ambitions.

Over the past two years, Putin has appeared to lend support to all three interpretations.

And it's kind of relevant that most Crimeans really did want to be annexed, isn't it?

https://www.bbg.gov/2014/06/03/ukra...crimeans-turning-to-russian-sources-for-news/
The results of the survey, conducted April 21-29, 2014, showed that 83% of Crimeans felt that the results of the March 16 referendum on Crimea’s status likely reflected the views of most people there. This view is shared only by 30% in the rest of the country. Most Crimeans (74%) also responded that they believe that life would be better as part of Russia.
 

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