The Infinite! In Search of The Ultimate Truth.

[Matthew Ellard]

But you must refrain from even implied characterizations, otherwise I would have no choice but to have you "ignored"; lest I have the whole thread removed.

You cannot have the whole thread removed. (Deleted like on the Skeptic Society Forum thread 2009 to 2015) The aim is to leave this whole thread up for search engines to locate, so anyone can find it and see the holes in your incoherent "God is infinities" religious claim.

////////////////////////

1) Using the formula, you posted, for approximating velocity at one point in time, show us how you integrated the words "EXISTENCE", "INTELLIGENCE", "ENERGY", "MATTER" into the formula?

2) You claimed time does not exist, yet the formula specifically requires the input of time. (velocity) Can you explain your error in claiming time doesn't exist?

3) If you cannot do this, and yet you claimed you already have, to prove your "God is infinities" religion, do you agree that we can see your religious claim is complete incoherent nonsense?

(Just admit it. You made up an entire story of using calculus to prove your silly religion and you got caught out. )

 

[Matthew Ellard]

There is no longer a need to fake in the science anymore. None at all.

He will always continue to pretend he previously used science and mathematics but can't actually write it down today.....because...(unknown reasons).

In short, he is also unaware mathematics destroys his very claim. Imagine a set of infinite possibilities of every imaginable sort. That set would include both "God is real" and "God is not real". Obviously he can't claim that same set proves there is a god......but that's exactly what he is doing.

 

[8enotto]

I have a very base understanding of advanced sciences. I do have powers of observation and s functioning BS filter.

None of his words really said anything that he concluded them to, and getting atomic particles to infinite universes in the same sentence was a red flag that something wasn't quite up to snuff.

My dad always said " if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS ".

It works until someone detects it.

 

[tazanastazio]

I have a very base understanding of advanced sciences. I do have powers of observation and s functioning BS filter.

None of his words really said anything that he concluded them to, and getting atomic particles to infinite universes in the same sentence was a red flag that something wasn't quite up to snuff.

My dad always said " if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS ".

It works until someone detects it.

You know how you can tell whether an idea or a theory is brilliant or Bullflakes 8enotto? Simple, by the time it takes to debunk it.


I put my philosophical concept to the test, on harsh environment and hostile ground; namely two skeptic forums which people of incredulous and/or inquisitive minds tend to populate; first time in 2009! People still try to "debunk" it!

Now I don't know what you think of Matthews intellectual levels, but take it from me you got to account for his bulldog like tenacity! Ten years now, he still persists in trying to "debunk" Infinitism, and it seems that he will continue to do so, for the rest for his life! Matthew has been spending every day of his life, for the past decade or so, searching the internet in order to debunk any of the various claims posted on forums, which he views as contrary to whatever makes sense to him. He says he finds it entertaining!

The average person would find nonsense entertaining only for so long. Matthew 10 years now, has been entertained by wasting his time trying futilely to "debunk" what he calls my "nonsense." The average person would have better things to do in his/her life. Had Matthew succeeded, as he claimed, to "debunk" Infinitism, all he had to do is post a link to the deed, or other information that would prove so, and call it a day! He would abandon my "nonsense" thread and continue his merry way, devoting his time to things more worthy of it.

The same goes for you 8enotto; if you find my thread "BS", why you stick around? Don't you have better things to do with your valuable time?

 

[tazanastazio]

He will always continue to pretend he previously used science and mathematics but can't actually write it down today.....because...(unknown reasons).

In short, he is also unaware mathematics destroys his very claim. Imagine a set of infinite possibilities of every imaginable sort. That set would include both "God is real" and "God is not real". Obviously he can't claim that same set proves there is a god......but that's exactly what he is doing.

The Infinite is not included in a "set." An infinite number of sets are instead included in the Infinite. There are gods, and there are no gods; depending on what your understanding of the human idea/word/definition/term of "god" is.

 

[tazanastazio]

You cannot have the whole thread removed. (Deleted like on the Skeptic Society Forum thread 2009 to 2015) The aim is to leave this whole thread up for search engines to locate, so anyone can find it and see the holes in your incoherent "God is infinities" religious claim.

////////////////////////

1) Using the formula, you posted, for approximating velocity at one point in time, show us how you integrated the words "EXISTENCE", "INTELLIGENCE", "ENERGY", "MATTER" into the formula?

2) You claimed time does not exist, yet the formula specifically requires the input of time. (velocity) Can you explain your error in claiming time doesn't exist?

3) If you cannot do this, and yet you claimed you already have, to prove your "God is infinities" religion, do you agree that we can see your religious claim is complete incoherent nonsense?

(Just admit it. You made up an entire story of using calculus to prove your silly religion and you got caught out. )

I have answered all that already repeatedly. I was never a fan of Merry-go-rounds.

 

[tazanastazio]

There is no longer a need to fake in the science anymore. None at all.


Declare your diety all powerful and beyond anything we mortals could ever understand and there you go..everything we have no understanding of is his and we were never meant to fully understand.

It's an ancient formula. Human ignorance + fears = need of all powerful diety.
Powerful diety + incessant fearful prayers makes for a safe protected life.

Unless one overcomes fear and worry to just enjoy a mundane life.

The response to all that is included in the end of the original post, I put the first sentence in the original (here in dark red), in bold blue letters so you can scroll down and find easily :

..........

"And 'the fool said there is no God' :


Is it really foolish to say there is no God? What is God other than the Infinite? Why would it matter for the Infinite whether you believe in it or not? Does the Infinite truly exist? To say "to exist" doesn't it mean to have a beginning and an end, to be finite? Doesn't the infinite include all existence and phenomena, and isn't the Infinite the reason for all phenomena and the source of every existence? What is the Infinite? What is God? Does it have a conscious; does the Infinite have a "Me" as Victor Hugo put it when he stated in his novel, Les Miserables: " The infinite exists. It is there. If the infinite had no me, the me would be its limit; it would not be the infinite; in other words, it would not be. But it is. Then it has a Me. This Me of the infinite is God."

Well it matters for humanity. Imagine billions of people (young children excluded), believing that this is all there is to it. That because of their primordial necessity for existence, self interest, and recognizing their finality, they had to blindly and wholeheartedly obey the emerging property of self-interest, selfishness; and achieve self satisfaction AT ALL COSTS! Welcome to the APOCALYPSE! It is a finite world after all, and it has to have some rules; conscience and consequences for those who choose or contemplate not to play by them. Draw your own conclusions. The Infinite is all inclusive, and all derives from it and all is directed to it, in an eternal, endless, infinite cycle of events.

..........

When we under the control of our feelings, instead of our feelings being under our control, when we are possessed by fear and panic, when we are addicted to act in ways that could have dire and even catastrophic results; it would be, figuratively speaking, as if we were controlled and tortured by daemons. A person sees a skull of a goat, ugly thing that it is, and scary enough to engage the minds of the curious, and associates it with the devil. He then can use it as a means to inflict fear in the hearts of the unfaithful; some of which in order to appease the devil, because they are afraid of him, they form a religious sect; another religion is formed. You, seeing the image at some point in your life, and being a little over-stressed and worried not to loose your job, wake up in the middle of the night because your subconscious has associated the image of the skull of the goat, with a distorted similar shape in your dream; you just had a nightmare, say a prayer to calm down or get over it. Seriously, if indeed there are superior beings spying over the Earth, don't they have anything better to do in the whole galaxy, or clusters of them? Do they need to torture us for entertainment?"

..........

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=28434

 

[Matthew Ellard]

How to change your claim 110 times!

There is no longer a need to fake-in the science anymore. None at all.

The response to all that is included in the end of the original post,

That means he is now going to fake parts of the bible and change his claim again.

Tell us again about how 1/3 of angels disguised themselves with radiation?
Which Bible did you read that in?

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=28434

Last edited by TazAnastazio on Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:15 am, edited 110 times in total.

I see you changed you original claim again fifteen minutes ago to hide errors

 

[Matthew Ellard]

God the mass murderer

And "the fool said there is no God" :

Imagine billions of people (young children excluded), believing that this is all there is to it.

Your "god" drowned and murdered every innocent child on the entire planet, in "the flood" for no reason. Is that something for billions of people to look forward to?

 

[tazanastazio]

Last edited by TazAnastazio on Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:15 am, edited 110 times in total.

I see you changed you original claim again fifteen minutes ago to hide errors

No I didn't, I just put the first sentence in bold letters, in order for anyone interested to be able to scroll down and find it easily, as I explained in my answer to 8enotto; proof? Here is the post which was split to the "abandon All Hope" thread because of your "innocuous" remarks, to which I felt I had to respond in kind:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339551

Some of your posts ended up there, and we both got a yellow card if you noticed. Now I don't know if they keep the same type of score here in regard to yellow cards as in soccer (football rather, that's probably one of the few things we would ever agree on in life ); but I don't want you to find out if two yellow cards mean a red, on my expense.

That means he is now going to fake parts of the bible and change his claim again.

Tell us again about how 1/3 of angels disguised themselves with radiation?
Which Bible did you read that in?

Read again about my dislike for Merry-go-rounds, of which I mentioned a few posts above.

 

[tazanastazio]

Your "god" drowned and murdered every innocent child on the entire planet, in "the flood" for no reason. Is that something for billions of people to look forward to?

Quoting from the original:


"In terms of religious point of view, there is that of the Atheist, who believes that there is no such a thing as God; the Agnostic who does not hold for an opinion or against; the Theist, who believes that there is definitely a God; and the Infinitist who considers all concepts and acknowledges that, being that all concepts are included within the Infinite, they convey an understanding, whether interpreted or extrapolated, figuratively or literally. If the burden of proof falls on the Theist to prove the existence of God, doesn't the burden of disproof of the existence of God, fall on the Atheist? Doesn't the Atheist have to prove what the source of all existence and phenomena is, if it is not God?

But what characteristics does humanity attribute to a god? Certainly the concept of superior beings with finite however needs, could apply to some entity or organization of entities who visited occasionally another planet; or some superior civilization colonizing a technologically inferior one. Or organizations within civilizations which fabricate stories, and by taking advantage of the needs and feelings of the people, establish an hierarchy of power over them and control them; by propagandizing the idea that riches and possessions of goods lead to a Hell (or belong to the elect of god), whereas sharing of goods, poverty, or struggling to make ends meet, lead to Heaven; being proud of your abilities and intelligence are faults, whereas meekness and humbleness are blessings; entertainment is a sin, whereas asceticism is a virtue. Surely if the masses have no riches; if they are powerless, and they demand less; if they are too humble to seek to acquire knowledge and ability; then they are sheep and therefore easy to control.

..........

"Certainly in their strife to control by means of establishing yet another correct dogma, the creators of religions lack originality.The story of Hercules, Dionysus, Buddha, Krishna, Christ and others... (please pardon me if I don't want to enrage the fanatics), all bear similarities. And certainly I am not to blame if Eve gave the apple to Adam and he ate it. And if God was to ask anyone nowadays to burn their child for sacrifice, they should seek help immediately. The Infinite would not need to send prophets and messengers, bring a flood and pestilence to make a point, sacrifice infants, and take a people to a 40 year maze of a tour in the desert; neither would it demand for people to perform their ablutions prior to their leader receiving plates with living guidelines, or appear in the sky in something that would resemble a futuristic spacecraft, or have angels sing while they repeatedly ascend and descend a sky-reaching ladder, or pick up one of its prophets in a flying chariot for effect.

The Earth is not even a drop in an infinite ocean of an infinite number of oceans. If the whole universe was to blow up tomorrow, at the same time others would form, let alone a small planet; a bud in a prairie among an infinite multitude of prairies. We humans give so much worth to our lives, because that is all we have. If the Infinite wanted for us to learn something from life and to evolve to something else, it would be left to happen on its own; eventually evolve. It could even speak through our minds, and some of us would indeed speak to others; yet we would speak only what our finite minds understood; and yes our stories would be similar. So believe what you like the outcome and the truth remains the same. Whatever actions we humans do, they only affect ourselves, humanity and society, not the Infinite. The Infinite could care less whether you are righteous or a crook, gluttonous or you fast, virtuous or lustful, strong or weak, brave or a coward; whether you believe in It or not, whether you glorify It or not, whether you sacrifice your life for It or not. Therefore the Infinite could not be used as a means of controlling you by manipulating your feelings; Who knows you may get to be a being of higher level of purpose and service within the Infinite, because everything within our finite existence has a reason right? And maybe some superior organization of beings would grand you a temporary stay in a heaven, and save you from a temporary punishment in a hell, or from utter oblivion. What you believe is in fact a personal matter; there is a multitude of possibilities we can imagine with our finite minds, and it is up to you to decide whether or not it is worth it to spend your life following one dogma out of so many others."

..........

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Changing the claim 110 times fifteen minutes ago

You re-edited your claim fifteen minutes ago to hide your previous errors. You have now changed it 110 times

No I didn't,

Nope. Read the times
"Last edited by TazAnastazio on Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:15 am, edited 110 times in total".

Tell us again about how 1/3 of angels disguised themselves with radiation? Which Bible did you read that in?

Read again about my dislike for Merry-go-rounds, of which I mentioned a few posts above.

Soooooo....you just made that bible story up. OK!

 

[Matthew Ellard]

And "the fool said there is no God" :

Imagine billions of people (young children excluded), believing that this is all there is to it.

Your "god" drowned and murdered every innocent child on the entire planet, in "the flood" for no reason. Is that something "good" for billions of people to look forward to?

Quoting from from the Original: " 'And the fool said there is no God'

Sooooo.... you don't like children and think it was OK for God to kill them all in the flood and if you don't believe in this god you are a fool?

No wonder Christianity is dying out.

 

[tazanastazio]

Sooooo.... you don't like children and think it was OK for God to kill them all in the flood and if you don't believe in this god you are a fool?

No wonder Christianity is dying out.

Read again :

"And 'the fool said there is no God' :

Is it really foolish to say there is no God? What is God other than the Infinite? Why would it matter for the Infinite whether you believe in it or not? Does the Infinite truly exist? To say "to exist" doesn't it mean to have a beginning and an end, to be finite? Doesn't the infinite include all existence and phenomena, and isn't the Infinite the reason for all phenomena and the source of every existence? What is the Infinite? What is God? Does it have a conscious; does the Infinite have a "Me" as Victor Hugo put it when he stated in his novel, Les Miserables: " The infinite exists. It is there. If the infinite had no me, the me would be its limit; it would not be the infinite; in other words, it would not be. But it is. Then it has a Me. This Me of the infinite is God."

Well it matters for humanity. Imagine billions of people (young children excluded), believing that this is all there is to it. That because of their primordial necessity for existence, self interest, and recognizing their finality, they had to blindly and wholeheartedly obey the emerging property of self-interest, selfishness; and achieve self satisfaction AT ALL COSTS! Welcome to the APOCALYPSE! It is a finite world after all, and it has to have some rules; conscience and consequences for those who choose or contemplate not to play by them. Draw your own conclusions. The Infinite is all inclusive, and all is formed/derives from it and all is deformed/directed to it, in an eternal, endless, infinite cycle of events.

..........

Perhaps in the historic past, when human law was not able to keep the peace among the deprived masses, which the economy of the times could not supply with even the necessities, religion did provide a solution; or perhaps in the future when our limited planet is not able any more to provide for the population, still some may resolve to believe in an after death salvation. Whereas some of us can swim in deeper waters, we all have our limits of understanding, and can only float for a while, and some could even drown in shallow waters. Certainly religion could play a role of simplifying matters to those who cannot conceive or comprehend deep concepts. So unless religion becomes a burden to the economy, progress and function of society, it could assist in lessening the weight of society in providing for peace and law and order within it. "


I like children; I would make every effort for the future generations to avoid the pitfalls of the past, and while living their lives to the fullest, to not go overboard and be affected by all the bad influence and maladies of the present; to be better prepared for the future, so they can pass on the same principles to the generations beyond their own.

I said "children excluded" in parenthesis, because as children they would not be preoccupied with the notions described in the lines following that statement.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Read again :

Is it really foolish to say there is no God?

Nope. As there is no evidence there is a god at all. There is only a fictional character in a bronze age book who murdered all the children on Earth in a flood.

What is God other than the Infinite?

A fictional character in a bronze age book

Does the Infinite truly exist?

No, as the universe is finite otherwise starlight would be everywhere in every direction. That's how it was first concluded the universe is finite. Didn't you realise that?

Well this is easy and fun.

 

[tazanastazio]

Does the Infinite truly exist?

No, as the universe is finite otherwise starlight would be everywhere in every direction. That's how it was first concluded the universe is finite. Didn't you realise that?

Well this is easy and fun.

Is it that easy though? If the Universe was finite wouldn't the starlight bounce upon its limit and eventually keep the universe always illuminated? Wouldn't also the energy of light eventually be exhausted by being absorbed in objects, while continue to be replenished from the sources? Couldn't light keep on "travelling" (passed on or be generated from particle to particle) throughout the Universe into the Infinite; and then its energy be absorbed by other objects, pulled by the gravitational force of a black hole, or in any way be lost within the Infinite?

You mentioned in the past that the singularity caused all dimensions (I say only three, you say more); so if that is the case then beyond the Universe there is "a non-dimensional nothingness" correct? Then whatever limits this universe, the universe of your perception, which somehow is expanding into "a non-dimensional nothingness"; something like, say gravity; would keep the light within the limits of the Universe, no? You see Matthew when you think in terms of an infinite Universe, you imagine it full of stars, galaxies etc. It doesn't have to be like that. It could be (as I imagine) a three dimensional Infinite, with an infinite number of Universes, perhaps of a variety of shapes; some far from each other, others closer; and "void" in between (comprised by infinitely as far as we can measure particles; which comprise the fabric of the Infinite with everything within it).

 

[Pixel42]

No, as the universe is finite otherwise starlight would be everywhere in every direction. That's how it was first concluded the universe is finite.

Except of course the later discovery that the universe is expanding put paid to that argument. The observable universe is finite, whether it continues beyond the part we can observe is undetermined.

I'm sure you know this, and are demonstrating the OP's ignorance; if the OP had any actual understanding of cosmology he would have responded as I have rather than spew out yet more nonsense.

 

[tazanastazio]

Except of course the later discovery that the universe is expanding put paid to that argument. The observable universe is finite, whether it continues beyond the part we can observe is undetermined.

I'm sure you know this, and are demonstrating the OP's ignorance; if the OP had any actual understanding of cosmology he would have responded as I have rather than spew out yet more nonsense.

You rushed to conclusions, I was about to get ready to catch some z's, I have an early start tomorrow; then I said why leave something for tomorrow that I should probably do today, sure enough you posted your statement.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP> Text moved to FMF.
Please discuss Forum Management issues in the correct sub-forum.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Except of course the later discovery that the universe is expanding put paid to that argument.

An infinite universe cannot be expanding from one big bang event. The universe is finite.

The observable universe is finite, whether it continues beyond the part we can observe is undetermined.

Homogeneous cosmic background radiation defines its size.

I'm sure you know this,

That's right.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

You rushed to conclusions

No. I ask questions that you refuse to answer. You are simply spamming the same "God is infinity" rubbish you spammed in 2009 and editing it to hide the errors as they get identified.