Epstein suicide conspiracy theories

[The Greater Fool]

Again, I have applied Occam's Razor. Epstein committed suicide and the guards were inept.

But yeah, good conspiracy fodder.

Wouldn't "inept guards" also be the excuse if it were murder?

But, yeah, with the evidence available, have to go with suicide.

 

[CORed]

I'll believe there were multiple broken bones when evidence is presented to that effect. At the moment we have hearsay that is being reported differently by different sources.

I have seen a headline about "multiple bones" but the text of the article I read with that headline only specifically mentioned the hyoid bone. The article stated that that bone is more commonly fractured in cases of strangulation than in cases of suiccide by hanging. I have no idea if this is true, but the hyoid bone is small and fairly easily fractured. I'm pretty sure that the only other bones in the neck would be the seven cervical vertebrae. Now, in my amateur opinion, fractures or dislocations in the cervical spine would be unlikely to happen in a jail cell suicide by hanging ind therefore very suspicious, but I have seen nothing, other than vague references to "multiple bones" to suggest that such fractures or dislocations actually happened.

 

[GlennB]

I have seen a headline about "multiple bones" but the text of the article I read with that headline only specifically mentioned the hyoid bone. The article stated that that bone is more commonly fractured in cases of strangulation than in cases of suiccide by hanging. I have no idea if this is true, but the hyoid bone is small and fairly easily fractured. I'm pretty sure that the only other bones in the neck would be the seven cervical vertebrae. Now, in my amateur opinion, fractures or dislocations in the cervical spine would be unlikely to happen in a jail cell suicide by hanging ind therefore very suspicious, but I have seen nothing, other than vague references to "multiple bones" to suggest that such fractures or dislocations actually happened.

Agree totally.

 

[Venom]

Yeah, that's kind of the point. This is not like other jail suicides we hear about. His death is going to come as a relief to some, for sure.

I'm sure some people are relieved that he killed himself.

 

[kellyb]

What I'm getting at is that bone vs. bones is an easy slip to make. His being reported as dead when he isn't is not at all the same kind of thing.

It was the original reporting from the WaPo that said it was bones, plural, though.
There's absolutely no original reporting saying it was just one bone, to my knowledge, although I'd be interested to see it if you're aware of any.

 

[kellyb]

I have seen a headline about "multiple bones" but the text of the article I read with that headline only specifically mentioned the hyoid bone. The article stated that that bone is more commonly fractured in cases of strangulation than in cases of suiccide by hanging. I have no idea if this is true, but the hyoid bone is small and fairly easily fractured. I'm pretty sure that the only other bones in the neck would be the seven cervical vertebrae. Now, in my amateur opinion, fractures or dislocations in the cervical spine would be unlikely to happen in a jail cell suicide by hanging ind therefore very suspicious, but I have seen nothing, other than vague references to "multiple bones" to suggest that such fractures or dislocations actually happened.

This is the original reporting, here.

Every other article out there about any sort of breakage in his neck is going off this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html

An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein suffered multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.

Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple.

ETA:
It is possible that the WaPo's two sources are lying, or that the journalists embellished what they said, I guess. You have to wonder why there hasn't been some dispute about the report from "authorities," or a retraction, if so, though.

 

[bknight]

This is the original reporting, here. Every other article out there about any sort of breakage in his neck is going off this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html

And what other bones did the autopsy indicate were broken, not what the news media thinks?

 

[kellyb]

So Prince Andrew and that Maxwell woman, basically two nobodies, can have potential witnesses that are locked up in federal prison not just killed but have it done so there's no real evidence of said killing?

There is evidence that he was murdered. You might not find the evidence persuasive, but it's evidence. Multiple broken bones in his neck from what's supposed to be a "partial" hanging, where he was found kneeling on the floor, is evidence. What Epstein claimed was his cellmate (a dirty cop involved with mob stuff) trying to kill him previously when he was found unconscious is evidence.

How do we know that first near-death event was a suicide attempt and not attempted murder, like Epstein claimed?

 

[kellyb]

And what other bones did the autopsy indicate were broken, not what the news media thinks?

Only the ME and the WaPo's two "sources" know, apparently.

So, basically nobody knows, and nobody's asking, as far as I can tell.

 

[bknight]

Only the ME and the WaPo's two "sources" know, apparently.

So, basically nobody knows, and nobody's asking, as far as I can tell.

You may discount the Washington Post(although they may be correct) as headlines don't necessarily lead to facts, merely poetic license. I haven't seen the ME's report.

 

[kellyb]

You may discount the Washington Post(although they may be correct) as headlines don't necessarily lead to facts, merely poetic license. I haven't seen the ME's report.

We probably never will.

So the WaPo is the best (aka, only) evidence we have on the topic of how many, if any, bones were broken in his neck.

ETA: And a claim of "multiple broken bones" is not "poetic license" according to anyone, ever. Come on. It might be an innocent error of some sort, but it's not "based on a true story" type fiction, if so.

 

[bknight]

We probably never will.

So the WaPo is the best (aka, only) evidence we have on the topic of how many, if any, bones were broken in his neck.

ETA: And a claim of "multiple broken bones" is not "poetic license" according to anyone, ever. Come on. It might be an innocent error of some sort, but it's not "based on a true story" type fiction, if so.

Newspaper sensationalize Headlines of events to sell newspapers, not report facts.

 

[kellyb]

Newspaper sensationalize events to sell newspapers, not report facts.

Okay. Well, "The WaPo and all news is fakenews, anyway" is an argument, I guess.
I don't find it a very good one.

If there is an error in the report, I'm pretty sure it would be innocent, or an exaggeration made by the sources, if anyone's "sensationalizing".

 

[carlitos]

Maybe I should just keep these inside jokes to myself.

No, you're right on track here.

The BBC reported that the Salomon Brothers Building fell 20 minutes before it actually collapsed. Press reports are 100% true, therefore the BBC had foreknowledge of the building's collapse, therefore conspiracy.

This is a pretty good analogue to:

The WaPo printed an article with 2 anonymous sources saying that Epstein had multiple broken bones. Press reports are 100% true, and my University of Google forensics degree has told me that multiple broken cervical bones are always proof of murder. Therefore, Killary got to Epstein.

 

[bknight]

Okay. Well, "The WaPo and all news is fakenews, anyway" is an argument, I guess.
I don't find it a very good one.

If there is an error in the report, I'm pretty sure it would be innocent, or an exaggeration made by the sources, if anyone's "sensationalizing".

Did you read the article at all? Only the "hyoid bone" is listed along with other "bones". Now why would they not report what other bones were broken? I suspect it is because they don't know and are just speculation. I don't find this type of reporting "innocent".

"Autopsy finds broken bones in Jeffrey Epstein’s neck, deepening questions around his death" is the headline where is the justification in making this claim? Nowhere in the report supplies information from a source. Are you reading between the lines? And further I didn't suggest fake news, I just commented on what is there, and what is not there.

 

[kellyb]

Did you read the article at all? Only the "hyoid bone" is listed along with other "bones". Now why would they not report what other bones were broken? I suspect it is because they don't know and are just speculation. I don't find this type of reporting "innocent".

They probably didn't report it because they weren't told the names of the other bones and didn't care enough to ask (or only had 30 seconds to get as much info as possible.)

Incomplete investigation and thus reporting isn't "malicious" sensationalizing.

And further I didn't suggest fake news,

Accusing the journalists of reporting their own speculation as fact in order to sell the story via "sensationalizing" absolutely is accusing it of being fake news.

 

[Lucian]

Is it possible that there were multiple fractures to the hyoid bone and that multiple fractures somehow became fractures to multiple bones?

 

[kellyb]

Is it possible that there were multiple fractures to the hyoid bone and that multiple fractures somehow became fractures to multiple bones?

Yeah, it's possible. I think it would mean the WaPo journalists had unreliable "sources", though. But that's always a potential problem with anonymous sources.

 

[GlennB]

And what other bones did the autopsy indicate were broken, not what the news media thinks?

The only other bones in the neck are the vertebrae. These have 'processes' (sticky-out bits) that can be broken without great risk to life. Feel round the back of your neck and you can feel some sticking out. Difficult to fracture those without impact from a hard object, while the other processes are pretty deep under substantial muscle.

But, yes, afaik the autopsy report is not available for public inspection.

 

[bknight]

They probably didn't report it because they weren't told the names of the other bones and didn't care enough to ask (or only had 30 seconds to get as much info as possible.)

Incomplete investigation and thus reporting isn't "malicious" sensationalizing.

Then the headline should have been a bone in the neck was broken.

Accusing the journalists of reporting their own speculation as fact in order to sell the story via "sensationalizing" absolutely is accusing it of being fake news.

That is your opinion, nothing more.