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ISIS teenager wants to come home

Vixen

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Vixen
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Seems one of the three teenage schoolgirls then budding sixth form pupils who thought it would be a great idea to join the ISIS movement in Syria, now wants to return to the UK.

One of three schoolgirls who left east London in 2015 to join the Islamic State group says she has no regrets, but wants to return to the UK.

In an interview with the Times, Shamima Begum, now 19, talked about seeing "beheaded heads" in bins - but said that it "did not faze her".

Speaking from a refugee camp in Syria, she said she was nine months pregnant and wanted to come home for her baby.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181


What does the panel think?

My initial thought was let her rot, but then callow youth does do stupid things - the Icarus syndrome - and I thought perhaps she deserves to be given a chance. However, her attitude irritates me and I can't help wondering if she is some kind of psychopath.
 
applecorped said:
She made her bed let her stay there and enjoy the bin full of heads
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Might depend on her official legal nationality rather than her antics. If she is still British then the UK might have to take her back, although it's possible she is declared stateless thanks to her ISIS affiliation.

What a cheek though, only coming back to use the NHS.

Western life OK then.
 
It's illegal in international law to declare someone stateless. We can't and won't do that.
 
We?

I would declare her an enemy combatant and if/when she returns I would jail her for at least 10 years
 
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This whole subject, whilst interesting, is moot. The girl is in Syria where we have no consular cover, and to get to a country where she could ask for help in being repatriated she would have to find her way across hostile territory and then across one of the most heavily policed borders in the world, without any paperwork. She might wish for all this to happen, and those who say she was a victim of online grooming whilst a 15 year old child may also wish this to happen, but the actuality is that there isn't any mechanism that could realistically bring these wishes to fruition. This discussion is all hypothetical only.
 
She "wants" to return because the show is over. To illustrate what "Baghouz", the last territory held by ISIS as mentioned in the article is, it's a couple of streets of a single village, and the 24 hours ultimatum the SDF gave to the remaining maybe 300 fighters to surrender is about to end every minute now.

France and some non-"Western" states have already taken some of the fine products of their societies back and the UK will eventually have to do the same, as the SDF has repeatedly called for.
 
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Worm said:
Your compassion is truly overwhelming.
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Read the article. She regrets nothing and liked the ISIS lifestyle. She had to flee because the alternative was a nice greeting from home in form of a bomb on the head, and that danger is still not over:

SANA said:
Deir Ezzor, SANA- Warplanes of the US-led “International Coalition” on Tuesday continued aggression on the Syrian territories through shelling al-Baghouz town in Deir Ezzor countryside claiming the lives of scores of civilians and injuring others, mostly women and children.

Local sources in Deir Ezzor told SANA that at least 70 civilians were martyred or injured, mostly women and children on the outskirts of al-Baghouz town in airstrikes launched by warplanes of the “International Coalition”.

The sources indicated that the coalition’s airstrikes targeted a camp that embraces hundreds of civilians who fled the shelling by the coalition and the terrorism of Daesh (ISIS), indicating that the number of martyrs is more likely to rise due to the critical conditions of some of the injured and the difficulty of hospitalizing them due to the continued shelling.

This massacre comes just hours after warplanes of the “International Coalition” committed another massacre in al-Baghouz village as 24 civilians were martyred mostly women and children.
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If she comes back there should be consequences. Serious consequences.

If the question is a moot one, I will shed no tears for her predicament, which she put herself in.
 
What's the law around this kind of stuff? ISIS is obviously an illegal operation, but sounds like she wasn't involved directly in any combat or other operations. She volunteered to marry a terrorist. Does that count as a criminal contribution?
 
Vixen said:
'We' did it to the so-called four Beatles (now three), did we not?
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No. Dual citizens can have their British nationality revoked, but we cannot and will not revoke the nationality of those with only British citizenship. That is a fundamental of international law.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
What's the law around this kind of stuff? ISIS is obviously an illegal operation, but sounds like she wasn't involved directly in any combat or other operations. She volunteered to marry a terrorist. Does that count as a criminal contribution?
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My understanding is that those like her may not have broken any laws. The government is (currently I think) bringing in a law which would make it a crime to travel to designated places, but obviously this couldn't be used retrospectively. In future, the government would designate a war zone or a terrorist training camp, and thus be able to charge and punish anyone who went there.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
What's the law around this kind of stuff? ISIS is obviously an illegal operation, but sounds like she wasn't involved directly in any combat or other operations. She volunteered to marry a terrorist. Does that count as a criminal contribution?
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I think so. She's been aiding a terrorist organization. I think we have to take her back and also prosecute her. Presumably it could make a difference given the age at which she left as to whether or not she would be tried as an adult, but as said, it sounds like she is unrepentant and wants to go the UK because she wants to give birth. Her earlier children died, presumably because ISIS hospitals, if such exist, are squalid as is the ideology she subscribes to.
 
Puppycow said:
If she comes back there should be consequences. Serious consequences........
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Consequences for what? Should people face consequences from the state if they haven't broken any laws?

I'll be honest, I don't want her back in the country, or anyone like her, but I also don't want the state to able to punish people for legal activities.
 
MikeG said:
Consequences for what? Should people face consequences from the state if they haven't broken any laws?

I'll be honest, I don't want her back in the country, or anyone like her, but I also don't want the state to able to punish people for legal activities.
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According to the BBC article:

Another British jihadi bride, Tareena Shakil, who got out of the war zone with her child, lied to the security services on her return and was jailed for membership of a terrorist group.

If Ms Begum got out of the country, that is the kind of charge she could face - along with encouraging or supporting terrorism.
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There is whole raft of crimes she might be in breach of, including (paraphrased) supporting terrorism, inviting support for terrorism, funding terrorism, being a member of a proscribed organisation, distributing, displaying or promoting terrorist material, receiving or engaging in terrorist training, transmitting information likely to be useful in terrorist activity, failing to report terrorist activity or the suspicion of terrorist activity to the authorities and, depending on what she's done in Syria, direct involvement in terrorist acts. And that's just a few off the top of my head.

If this terrorist cannot be stripped of her citizenship, which is likely, then she should be given no help whatsoever to return to the UK and any person who does help her should be charged with terrorist offences. If she makes it back the UK under her own steam her child should be immediately removed from her custody and she should be charged with all pertinent offences. Unfortunately, although I suspect enough evidence for multiple life sentences can be found, the weak-minded UK justice system will sentence her to six or eight years and she'll serve three.

Then, she will get out of jail and security forces will spend millions of taxpayers' money monitoring her activities. Whether she slips the net and commits a terrorist act on UK soil, or causes one to be committed, or whether she simply remains a parasite for the rest of her life, sucking on the fat tit of the welfare state, who knows. Personally I'd have her executed.
 
Here's the article about France taking back 130 of their ISIS members captured alive, two weeks ago, after the SDF/YPG has called for months if not years on countries to take them back.

Firat News Agency said:
[...] There are some 3.000 ISIS members captured in YPG special units’ operations in northern Syria in Rojava’s prisons. The number rises as the operations continue. Over 800 of the arrestees stand out as citizens of 46 countries, including many Western countries. The Rojava administration has been calling for France, the US, Germany and other countries to take on the task of putting these foreign ISIS members on trial. To date, only Indonesia, Russia, Morocco and the Sudan have officially requested extradition from the Rojava administration for their citizens captured alive by the YPG.
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A couple of days later even the US called on states to take back their citizens. Although I have read nothing about them doing the same - which is usual MO I guess. Do as we tell you, not as we do.
 
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