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Serving the nation in times of war and peace..

headscratcher4

Philosopher
headscratcher4
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
7,776
This is old. It wears its bias on its sleve. I am sure there are some errors. Military service is not any indication of patriotism. Failure to serve in the military is no indication of lack of ability to lead.

This is just a list, offered for whatever anyone wants to make of it. Again, I state its coloration and bias is obvious, but I do find it interesting nonetheless, even if taken with a grain of salt....


Democrats:
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,
Vietnam. Paraplegic from war injuries. Served in Congress.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze
Stars,and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and AirMedal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.

Republicans -- and these are the guys sending people to war:
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non- combat role
making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Vietnam POW, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit,
Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem, " although continued in NFL for 8 years as quarterback.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot
back.)
 
Pardom my relative ignorance of US politics. Of your political list, how select would you say that is? What percentage of each party in House or Senate is represented here? Are all the names current politicians?

The pundits list is too small (I think) to be of any value, as I suspect anyone knowledgable might extend such a list a hundredfold.

Is it actually commoner for the Democrats than the Republicans to recruit members (whether elected or not) from ex-military people?
 
NO real relevence here, actually, I admit it. Many of the Democrats mentioned are no longer in power or even members of Congress. The pundits mentioned are just some of the ones who most vocally have supported the Bush Administration. This isn't even close to a review of all 430+ members of congress, etc. As I said, it is biased propoganda. However, I find it itneresting, especially with respect to the list of Republicans.
 
headscratcher4 said:
NO real relevence here, actually, I admit it. Many of the Democrats mentioned are no longer in power or even members of Congress. The pundits mentioned are just some of the ones who most vocally have supported the Bush Administration.
Click to expand...

Zombie John Wayne supports Bush?

headscratcher4 said:
This isn't even close to a review of all 430+ members of congress, etc. As I said, it is biased propoganda.
Click to expand...

Having propagated it, that makes you...?

headscratcher4 said:
However, I find it itneresting, especially with respect to the list of Republicans.
Click to expand...

Things I find interesting:

All Presidents going back to 1976 are mentioned, save for the the Republican with an unquestionably honorable wartime service record.

All Presidential nominees going back to 1976 are mentioned, save for Ford, Dole, and Dukakis, all of whom served.

The list of Republicans is characterized as "the guys sending people to war" but no honest attempt to label the folks who actually are sending people to war is made. (Reagan sent people to war, but Clinton did not? If the reference was made to Afghanistan or Iraq, it would be easy enough to put an asterisk next to the appropriate names, in both lists of politicians.)

Dan Quayle did journalism in the Guard. Lindsey Graham was a lawyer there. Apparently Dick Gephardt didn't do anything specific.

When Democrats serve in the active duty military and then transfer over to the Reserves, that contribution seems to be duly noted. Not so lucky is our man Donald Rumsfeld, who apparently only instructed in aviation for four years, and didn't continue to serve in the Reserves for the next sixteen years.

Here's an interesting comparison
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea. (that would be USAF:1953-58)

Given that Bob Dornan served in 1953 when the war was still ongoing, one might suspect that he actually enlisted before the war was over. I wonder what his enlistment date was. (If anyone is wondering, Stark is two years older than Dornan - no telling what he was waiting for.)

Having said all that, I'll stack the Bush foreign policy team up against the Clinton foreign policy team as regards military service any day.
 
There's nothing wrong with sending people to war even if you haven't been yourself, as long as everyone's mostly agreed that the war is necessary and just.

Whoops!
 
Somehow I would have expected to see the name of the Secretary of State on the list of those Republicans who send people to war. But then perhaps Gen. Powell's record was too long to include so they had to leave him out.

Robert Klaus
 
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nightZombies3.jpg


America stands for liberty, for the pursuit of happiness, and for the unalienalienable right of life.
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Strange... those Republicans with a war record (McCain and Powell) are among the least hawkish of the whole bunch...
 
aerocontrols said:
McCain? What gives you that idea?
Click to expand...

Well - it may just be my flawed perception - he is one of the few Republicans I can think of not on record as taking part in the whole "we know he has them and we know where they are" crap, or the whole "we must be allowed to use torture whenever we want" crap, or the whole "if you disagree with us, you a big buddie of Osama" crap.
 
headscratcher4 said:
NO real relevence here, actually, I admit it. Many of the Democrats mentioned are no longer in power or even members of Congress. The pundits mentioned are just some of the ones who most vocally have supported the Bush Administration. This isn't even close to a review of all 430+ members of congress, etc. As I said, it is biased propoganda. However, I find it itneresting, especially with respect to the list of Republicans.
Click to expand...
So you're posting a list of names that even you acknowledge is fatally undermined by its being a case of fallacy by unrepresentative sample or perhaps fallacy of exclusion and then throw in some innuendo for good measure by claiming it's "interesting."

Why do you think such a silly list, and the invidious conclusions it calls for, is "interesting"?

Next up: Headscratcher4's "interesting" arguments for Intelligent Design.
 
Since the list specifically identifies Republicans who send people to war, shouldn't there also be a list of Republicans who didn't send people to war? And, come to think of it, the Democratic list should be broken down between those who didn't and those who did.
Myself, I got more months of combat pay working for Clinton than I did for Bush.

Robert
 
Grammatron said:
Does majority of congress qualify, because you know...
Click to expand...


Oh, I'm indulging in the luxury of retrospect. Let's ask all the congressmen and senators who voted for the war if they would have voted differently if they knew then what they know now.
 
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