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Brexit: Now What? Part IV

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RolandRat said:
How does Brexit have an impact on illegal immigration?
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Because the UK can, if it so decides after Brexit, make new laws that make it illegal for (some) EU citizens to migrate to the UK. At the moment the UK is prohibited from making such new laws as freedom of movement for EU citizens within the EU is enshrined in EU law - and EU law overrides any national laws for all EU member countries.
 
ceptimus said:
Because the UK can, if it so decides after Brexit, make new laws that make it illegal for (some) EU citizens to migrate to the UK. At the moment the UK is prohibited from making such new laws as freedom of movement for EU citizens within the EU is enshrined in EU law - and EU law overrides any national laws for all EU member countries.
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Good point. There is the issue of border checks. Currently there are border checks all around the EU designed to prevent illegal immigration. Post brexit there appears to be a will to have no border checks in Ireland so any Europeans we decide to prohibit could come illegally to the UK unhindered. It is therefore likely that illegal immigration will increase post brexit as we will be unable to stop any Europeans or non Europeans who the Irish let in from entering the UK illegally.
 
MikeG said:
Well we don't need it, if there is something that works put in its place. Neither ceptimus nor anyone else that I can see has said that there should be no extradition procedures in place between the UK and the EU, and yet you assumed in your post that it was the EAW or nothing.
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I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the EAW is a significantly simpler process than regular extradiction procedures.
 
ceptimus said:
Because the UK can, if it so decides after Brexit, make new laws that make it illegal for (some) EU citizens to migrate to the UK. At the moment the UK is prohibited from making such new laws as freedom of movement for EU citizens within the EU is enshrined in EU law - and EU law overrides any national laws for all EU member countries.
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Which ones do you have in mind?
 
Lothian said:
Good point. There is the issue of border checks. Currently there are border checks all around the EU designed to prevent illegal immigration. Post brexit there appears to be a will to have no border checks in Ireland so any Europeans we decide to prohibit could come illegally to the UK unhindered. It is therefore likely that illegal immigration will increase post brexit as we will be unable to stop any Europeans or non Europeans who the Irish let in from entering the UK illegally.
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I don't see how that situation changes after Brexit for current illegals. Currently any illegal migrants in Ireland can cross unhindered into Northern Ireland, and after Brexit that situation won't change.

If we decide to make new laws making immigration illegal for certain categories of EU citizens (and that's a big if) then it's true that those illegal immigrants belonging to that new category will also be able to cross unhindered.

The trick (this applies to all illegals) is to try to catch them when they attempt to spend money by a card, or buy or rent somewhere to live, or become employed, or any of the other numerous things that everyone does where identity is checked.
 
ceptimus said:
I don't see how that situation changes after Brexit for current illegals. Currently any illegal migrants in Ireland can cross unhindered into Northern Ireland, and after Brexit that situation won't change.

If we decide to make new laws making immigration illegal for certain categories of EU citizens (and that's a big if) then it's true that those illegal immigrants belonging to that new category will also be able to cross unhindered.

The trick (this applies to all illegals) is to try to catch them when they attempt to spend money by a card, or buy or rent somewhere to live, or become employed, or any of the other numerous things that everyone does where identity is checked.
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The big difference is that currently illegal immigrants need to smuggle themselves over a border to get into the EU in future they will be able to freely walk, drive or cycle past the unmanned immigration desk.

Yes, any people currently who are illegally in Ireland could currently come to the UK. However post bexit people who are legally in Ireland but would be illegal in the UK can also come. That is why the number of illegals will increase if we change our rules to make it illegal for EU citizens to travel freely to the UK.

How successful is your trick currently? I understand we deport each year about 1/3 of the numbers crossing the Irish border in any one day. That total annul deportation rate includes a large proportion who are stopped at immigration and subsequently denied entry.
 
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Information Analyst said:
I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the EAW is a significantly simpler process than regular extradiction procedures.
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Which is nothing to do with what you were saying, or why I intervened in the conversation. It is also perfectly possible that the EU and the UK could develop streamlined arrangements that resemble the EAW. Again, nothing to do with your initial position that without the EAW there would be no way of removing foreign criminals. Something will replace the EAW, whereas your assumption was that nothing would.
 
MikeG said:
Which is nothing to do with what you were saying, or why I intervened in the conversation. It is also perfectly possible that the EU and the UK could develop streamlined arrangements that resemble the EAW. Again, nothing to do with your initial position that without the EAW there would be no way of removing foreign criminals. Something will replace the EAW, whereas your assumption was that nothing would.
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Well.... given there are only 9 months left and these kind of extradition treaties usually take a couple of years to get done... I'd say that for the near future there will be nothing to replace it.
 
Amazer said:
Well.... given there are only 9 months left and these kind of extradition treaties usually take a couple of years to get done... I'd say that for the near future there will be nothing to replace it.
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Can't wait for the first Daily Mail story about a parent snatching a kid and taking it to an EU country and there is nothing the UK can do, or a yobbo giving us two fingers from the Costa Del Sol (yeah I know it's Croatia these days but I'm a traditionalist.)

Say someone like this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ourt-captured-Spain-4-million-drugs-plot.html
 
Darat said:
Can't wait for the first Daily Mail story about a parent snatching a kid and taking it to an EU country and there is nothing the UK can do, or a yobbo giving us two fingers from the Costa Del Sol (yeah I know it's Croatia these days but I'm a traditionalist.)
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I think the big question that's always concerned me about the post-Brexit politico-social landscape is, once we leave the EU, who or what will Daily Mail readers blame for everything they don't like?

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
I think the big question that's always concerned me about the post-Brexit politico-social landscape is, once we leave the EU, who or what will Daily Mail readers blame for everything they don't like?

Dave
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I have no doubt that the DM (and their compatriots) will have no issue blaming the EU for any and all bad things that might happen for at least a generation or so.
 
catsmate said:
.......The brown ones.
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It's **** like this that reminds me why I don't bother with the politics threads any more. Content-free sneering, tarring the other side with bollocks not one of them would accept, and ignored by all the fellow travellers because if you're not with us you're against us. FFS, does it need to be this *********** gormless?
 
Amazer said:
Well.... given there are only 9 months left and these kind of extradition treaties usually take a couple of years to get done... I'd say that for the near future there will be nothing to replace it.
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The transition period doesn't apply to extradition/ EAW? Who knew?
 
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