Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Vixen]

Please provide these alleged "three different reasons" with source. Unless you do, this claim will be flung onto the ever growing pile of lies.

1. wanted to save battery as going to Gubbio next day (Mignini: 'Don't you have a recharger?').

2. worried that Patrick might 'change his mind'.

3. wanted nookie.

 

[Stacyhs]

Amanda had some very interesting, and spot on, observations in this interview about how the internet helped create the false image of her as a monster:

I feel like I was social media patient zero. Because 2007, we’re talking everyone getting Facebook, that’s when the iPhone came out, when blogs were huge. And suddenly everyone was an expert and no one knew what the truth was anymore, and that meant conspiracy theories were suddenly given this massively fertile ground. I was totally aware of echo chambers way before we were talking about them because I had either “guilters” or “supporters.” And it seemed like there was no possible grey space for people to think about the case in any kind of reasonable way. I feel so bad for my supporters because they’ll try to talk down the trolls who are constantly on my back every day…

Still?

Oh, absolutely. There are plenty of haters — every single thing I do in any kind of visible capacity they’ll try to tear me down for it. In their opinion, I somehow was able to buy or sleep my way to freedom and, actually, I’m a terrible monster. Social media has exacerbated, so far, echo chambers and tunnel vision such that you can believe whatever the hell you want. And not only that, you can now, from a place of anonymity, speak directly to and punish directly the person you feel entitled to punish.

http://www.chatelaine.com/news/amanda-knox-interview/

She has so many PGP down pat. Despite how these PGP have tried to mold her into the monster of their own fertile imaginations, Amanda is much more generous and kind when it comes to Mignini:

There were plenty of people who loved me and would say my prosecutor was “a bad, evil man and that’s why he’s doing this.” And I was like, “No, if I want to actually understand why he’s doing this to me, I have to humanize him, I have to remember that he thinks he’s doing the right thing.”

(ibid)

 

[Vixen]

Vixen already fully admits to believing the crime was premeditated. She thinks Massei's explanation that Knox carried the kitchen knife for personal defense was just "indulging the kids." Which is funny because it's literally admitting that the motivation reports make up knowingly false speculation on the spot to fit a theory, and then they have the nerve to come here and cite bs from the various motivation reports as if it means anything.

Vixen's theory is that within five days of meeting, Amanda and Raffaele planned a thrill killing in broken English and mangled Italian against her flatmate so that Amanda could spend half her semester abroad homeless and dispossessed by a locked off crime scene that was formerly an idyllic Italian country villa overlooking a scenic valley nobody would want to vacation in. They turned off their phones while not rehearsing alibis and set off to kill but by chance ran into Rudy the burglar Amanda once saw on the other side of a room and decided to invite the extra eyewitness along (reasons unclear) and he decided to join them and kind of hang out and participate in this spontaneous rape murder (reasons unclear) and then spend years in prison never testifying against his accomplices (reasons unclear). Then Raffaele had enough of the whole court process and unleashed his mafia powers and made everything go away.

I know it sounds like i'm parodying/exaggerating Vixen's position but I think it's accurate and she can correct me if I got anything wrong.

Knox had fantasies of rape and murder before she even arrived in Perugia.

Raff 'wanted extreme experiences'.

Ryan Ferguson told Eriksson his ambition was to kill someone.

The 14-year old girl who topped her mum and little sister aged 11 by getting her fifteen year old boyfriend to do it as she didn't like the smell of her sister's blood.

Yes, outrageous though it seems, such sorry specimens of the human race exist. Many thrill killers being young adults.

 

[Vixen]

They did premeditate it with 15 minutes notice, given that Knox was expecting to be working until 20.15 and Sollecito had previous plans for the evening until 20.45, then they not only had to bump into Guede and explain the plan and get him to agree, but they also need to get to the Plaza to be seen by Curatolo between 21.00 and 21.30. It was just lucky the Guede had already decided to hang around the villa (as seen on CCTV) before Knox and Sollecito had known they were free that evening.

So that gives them about 15 minutes to make the plan, get Guede's participation, carry out the murder then get to the Plaza. All this given that Guede was a virtual stranger and spoke no or little English, Sollecito's English was poor and Knox had only just stated to learn Italian.

Then of course there is the issue with mutually incompatible witness testimony. Since they were seen sitting in the Plaza until midnight then they could not have been the footsteps heard running. Nor could they have been the cause of the scream heard, because an eye witness puts them elsewhere at the time of the scream and running footsteps.

The girl and her boyfriend who topped her sister and mum, planned it the day before in MacDonalds.

Knox and Raff trashed the hard drives of their computers to destroy evidence of pre-planning.

Doing it as soon as they had a moment and Mez was alone at home, doesn't preclude their having planned it. 'If it be not now, 'tis yet to come' ~ Hamlet.

And in any case, even if it was only a split second decision to fetch the knife, then that is premeditation. The criterion is intent, not the duration of the intent.

 

[Methos]

I get that. However, electronics and communications expert witnesses at the trial tested all of this and discovered:

• 
  [...]
• Amanda Knox admitted turning off her phone at circa 20:45 the night of the murder, giving at least three different reasons to police.
  [...]

Please provide these alleged "three different reasons" with source. Unless you do, this claim will be flung onto the ever growing pile of lies.

1. wanted to save battery as going to Gubbio next day (Mignini: 'Don't you have a recharger?').

2. worried that Patrick might 'change his mind'.

3. wanted nookie.

No sources as usual, but what's the problem?

 

[Vixen]

The anime is another factoid that is provably false but is continually re-hashed. Versions are that the Manga involved a halloween killing - false. That the position of the victim in the magazine, matched that of the victim in real life - false. that a vampire was killed - false. But the biggest fallacy is that Sollecito had read the Manga. As the police officer testified the magazine was sealed in plastic unread when it was found. So Sollecito and Knox could not have known what was in the magazine. That the magazines were unread is evidence that sollecito was not a Manga fan, yet this story about him reading violent Manga is repeated despite the fact the evidence points to the opposite.

It's part of a picture of someone who glorifies violence.

What do we know about Raff? He attacked a girl with scissors in Bari. He was caught watching animal porn at school. He dablled in acid and cocaine. He posted a menacing picture of himself on FB dressed as a mad scientist with meat cleaver in his hand. He worships Marilyn Manson and took pictures of Manson burning the Bible as part of his act. He has a large knife collection, including fetish knives costing large sums of money. He claims a prison warder threatened to leave him in a pool of blood (a projection of what he did to Mez?) In the questura he was overheard teaching Knox how to say 'I spit on your dead relative;s grave'.

Charming chap, I'm sure.

More recently he joined an extreme closed FB group in which he advised other members the best way to murder someone.

 

[Vixen]

This is all bs. One, I don't believe you when say they questioned Raffaele's neighbors about their cellular reception. Two, the prosecution expert did test reception OUTSIDE Raffaele's building. Dr. Pellero on the other hand tested reception throughout Raffaele's apartment and testified to significant dead zones within it. Three, neighbors of Raffaele ARE NOT ever in the same situation as RF reception varies according to location. One cannot know precisely where these apartments were in relation to the cell tower and the number of windows and wall openings, all of which effect radio reception.

BTW, Where is your admission of error regarding the charter? We are STILL WAITING.

Read the court documents. It was categorically ruled out that Raff had problems with his signal on the murder night.

 

[Vixen]

Which means absolutely nothing. But that doesn't stop the PGP from claiming it does.

Claiming an unidentified manga cartoon tattoo is evidence of anything is as silly as the PGP claiming that Knox's noise violation for a college party is evidence of her being an out-of-control, wild child.

Not unidentified. The darkest most evil one. Guede used it as his computer pw.

 

[Vixen]

Given that the PGP-PR campaign believes Guede, in that Guede was the one who said that Raffaele was left handed and that he'd worn peculiar, rememberable clothing...

..... then one must accept that according to Rudy Guede he'd not met with Knox and/or Sollecito, but was already at the cottage after being invited in by the victim, where (as Guede claimed) he'd had consensual sex with the victim - and then and only then Knox came to the cottage and a fight broke out about the rent money.

How does Guede's story, which PGP and the Nencini court believe, fit into premeditation?

Knox knew Rudy. Rudy was kicking around bored. Knox was bored, Raff was bored. Massei ruled Knox let in Rudy, adding that it didn't matter whether it was Mez or Amanda who opened the door to him.

Fact is, Knox was definitely in the vicinity and confirmed by her own account, 'I met 'Patrick' (as Marasca decreed a substitute for Rudy) by the basketball court' and then proceeded to invite him and into Mez' bedroom for sex.

 

[Stacyhs]

1. wanted to save battery as going to Gubbio next day (Mignini: 'Don't you have a recharger?').

2. worried that Patrick might 'change his mind'.

3. wanted nookie.

No sources as usual, but what's the problem?

Perhaps because the actual source goes on to show that Vixen is misrepresenting what was actual testified to in court:

GM: The autonomy of the battery? Do you remember?

AK: I think it was about one or two days. It wasn't very long, but in the end, well, for example, the next morning, I was going to go to Gubbio, but I didn't have time to charge up the battery, so I thought, I don't want to get any phone calls this evening, and if I want to have my phone with me in Gubbio, I wanted it to be reasonably charged up. That's why I turned it off.
GM: I see. Now you're saying this was the motive.

GCM: I heard an objection. [Annoyed voices.] Please, please. Go ahead. [Voices arguing, dalla Vedova (I think it's him) is standing up.]

GCM: This is an analysis. Indeed, yesterday Amanda Knox stated that turning off the cell phone was to guarantee her a free evening without being... [interruption] Excuse me. But at the interrogation of Dec 17 she said that it was both to save battery and also for this reason [interruptions, arguing]. So, I thought I understood that she had two reasons. We're not arguing about that. Also not to be called by Patrick.
GCM: Yes, yes. Both reasons.
CDV: The objection isn't about that. It's about...

GCM: Excuse me, please. This is an analysis. let's return to the cross-examination by the pubblico ministero. The defense lawyers will have the final words. Everyone will hear what they have to say then.

CDV: My objection was because the introductory request--

GCM: Please, please.
Enough now ["adesso basta"].

CDV: My objection concerned the way the pubblico ministero presented his question, appearing to contest the fact that in the Dec 17 interrogation, Amanda also explained that she turned off her phone because she didn't want to be called by Patrick, because she didn't want to be disturbed. This doesn't correspond to the truth, because on page 40 of the minutes, she actually says "So, I turned it off also to not run the risk that Patrick would change his mind and call me in."

As the testimony shows, Amanda gave both reasons during the Dec. 17 interrogation. I guess Vixen thinks a person can't have two reasons for doing something.

The "wanted nookie" bit is just Vixen coming up with #3 since she claimed there were three reasons...which there weren't.

We can add this to her pile of lies.

 

[LondonJohn]

Knox knew Rudy. Rudy was kicking around bored. Knox was bored, Raff was bored. Massei ruled Knox let in Rudy, adding that it didn't matter whether it was Mez or Amanda who opened the door to him.

Are you still not aware that Massei's verdict (with its accompanying MR) has been expunged from the record? That it no longer judicially even exists? Gone. Kaput. Disappeared. Obliterated. And yet you keep referring to it.

Fact is, Knox was definitely in the vicinity and confirmed by her own account, 'I met 'Patrick' (as Marasca decreed a substitute for Rudy) by the basketball court' and then proceeded to invite him and into Mez' bedroom for sex.

"Fact is" HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Your "arguments" have perhaps the loosest relationship with actual facts as I have ever encountered. This one is (unsurprisingly) no exception.

 

[LondonJohn]

Read the court documents. It was categorically ruled out that Raff had problems with his signal on the murder night.

1) It was not "categorically ruled out" by Massei or any other court.

2) In any case, you need to take your own advice, and read the only court verdict which actually matters (and the only one which still actually exists in a judicial sense): the Marasca SC verdict. You know: the one which definitively acquits Knox and Sollecito on all murder-related charges. That one.

 

[bagels]

Vixen's theory is that within five days of meeting, Amanda and Raffaele planned a thrill killing in broken English and mangled Italian

Knox had fantasies of rape and murder before she even arrived in Perugia.

Raff 'wanted extreme experiences'.

They turned off their phones while not rehearsing alibis and set off to kill but by chance ran into Rudy the burglar Amanda once saw on the other side of a room and decided to invite the extra eyewitness along (reasons unclear)

Knox knew Rudy. Rudy was kicking around bored. Knox was bored, Raff was bored.

and he decided to join them and kind of hang out and participate in this spontaneous rape murder (reasons unclear) and then spend years in prison never testifying against his accomplices (reasons unclear).

Fact is, Knox was definitely in the vicinity and confirmed by her own account, 'I met 'Patrick' (as Marasca decreed a substitute for Rudy) by the basketball court' and then proceeded to invite him and into Mez' bedroom for sex.

I know it sounds like i'm parodying/exaggerating Vixen's position but I think it's accurate and she can correct me if I got anything wrong.

Lol I guess I got everything right

 

[LondonJohn]

It's part of a picture of someone who glorifies violence.

What do we know about Raff? He attacked a girl with scissors in Bari. He was caught watching animal porn at school. He dablled in acid and cocaine. He posted a menacing picture of himself on FB dressed as a mad scientist with meat cleaver in his hand. He worships Marilyn Manson and took pictures of Manson burning the Bible as part of his act. He has a large knife collection, including fetish knives costing large sums of money. He claims a prison warder threatened to leave him in a pool of blood (a projection of what he did to Mez?) In the questura he was overheard teaching Knox how to say 'I spit on your dead relative;s grave'.

Charming chap, I'm sure.

More recently he joined an extreme closed FB group in which he advised other members the best way to murder someone.

Now, regardless of the fact that virtually all of the above is either wholly invented or grossly distorted/misrepresented.....

..... it's all entirely irrelevant when trying to assess whether a certain person committed a certain crime. If a murderer (i.e. someone who was justly convicted on the BARD standard in a properly-constituted court) was released from his long prison sentence, and two weeks after his release, someone was murdered 1/2 mile from where the released murderer now lived, that man couldn't even be arrested - let alone charged - let alone convicted - on the basis that he was a "proven murderer".

Oh, I realise that in your own mind, you can demonise Sollecito (and Knox, of course), and this then - in its own weird, jaded, low-intellect way - can provide its own rationale for your consideration of the two as "evil murderers of poor Mez".... but in the real world one actually needs proper, reliable, credible evidence that either Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder. And guess what? No such evidence exists. So, Vixen, no matter how much you can manage to build your character-hatred of Sollecito or Knox, they stand precisely as innocent over participation in the Kercher murder as you do (which is to say: they retain the presumption of innocence).

 

[LondonJohn]

And now for more proof that Peter Quennell is living in an alternate reality...
Slick Pete sent this email to the owner of GroundReport, Justin Weigner:

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=194430#p194430

Hilarious!!
Claiming that Raffaele is the nephew of Rocco Sollecito is yet another lie that TJMK created but has never provided any evidence for. They do seem to have a habit of doing that. I've looked at many sources about Rocco Sollecito and not a single one ever mentioned him being related to, much less the uncle, of Raffaele. Nor is it mentioned in any book on the Kercher case. If Raffaele were related to the notorious mafia figure, especially that closely, it would have been noted in the media. But, no...it's not. This one gets tossed onto the "Marriott hired a charter plane" pile of dung.

What did give me a real laugh, though, was this:


He writes "Without exaggeration" and then immediately follows that with gross exaggerations. You just can't make this kind of stuff up!

Wow, this is genuinely screwball-crazy from ballerina-botherer Quennell. Fortunately his sick Walter Mitty fantasies are quarantined to an irrelevant corner of the internet. Those who contribute material or commentary to his site ought perhaps to take a long look at themselves too.

 

[Bill Williams]

Knox knew Rudy. Rudy was kicking around bored. Knox was bored, Raff was bored. Massei ruled Knox let in Rudy, adding that it didn't matter whether it was Mez or Amanda who opened the door to him.

Fact is, Knox was definitely in the vicinity and confirmed by her own account, 'I met 'Patrick' (as Marasca decreed a substitute for Rudy) by the basketball court' and then proceeded to invite him and into Mez' bedroom for sex.

As a way to avoid the stupid stuff you've been posting recently - not even acknowledging you've been caught....

.... you simply flood this thread with more stupid stuff, recycled from past stupidities you similarly ignored on the other side of the merry-go-round.

Now you're quoting Massei, the judge who said that it was Rudy and Rudy alone with no urging from anyone else who attacked the victim.

Please stop using the familiar name for the victim. Show some respect.

And at least answer some questions put to you before continuing your flooding campaign for this thread.

 

[Stacyhs]

It's part of a picture of someone who glorifies violence.

What do we know about Raff? He attacked a girl with scissors in Bari. He was caught watching animal porn at school. He dablled in acid and cocaine. He posted a menacing picture of himself on FB dressed as a mad scientist with meat cleaver in his hand. He worships Marilyn Manson and took pictures of Manson burning the Bible as part of his act. He has a large knife collection, including fetish knives costing large sums of money. He claims a prison warder threatened to leave him in a pool of blood (a projection of what he did to Mez?) In the questura he was overheard teaching Knox how to say 'I spit on your dead relative;s grave'.

Charming chap, I'm sure.

More recently he joined an extreme closed FB group in which he advised other members the best way to murder someone.

ROTFLMAO! You are just a fountain of falsehoods.

RS never attacked a girl with scissors. Someone said a girl at his school had been wounded with scissors but did not say RS had done it. Volturno went to Bari to check out RS's school records. He found two notes that RS had been written up for "playing with is pen" and "Sollecito is throwing paper pellets at his classmate”. There was nothing about RS and scissors. NOTHING. Volturno said the school papers had been routinely destroyed as was normal after a certain period of time. NO ONE ever came forward and said RS had injured anyone. Not his classmates. Not his teachers. NO ONE.

Yep, he watched a porn video along with some other boys in college one time. STOP THE PRESSES! Breaking news: College boys watch weird stuff related to sex!

Yes, he tried cocaine. So did I once when I was young and stupid.

OMG. STOP THE PRESSES AGAIN! College boy's friends wrap him up in toilet paper! Film at eleven!

"Worshipped" Marilyn Manson? LOL! A lot of guys that age are Manson fans. I don't get it, but then again, I'm not a college guy.

He had a knife collection. Sources that it was "large" and "costing large sums of money"? So what? My BIL collects guns. My daughter collected swords when she was into Spanish sword fighting. She even has a WW2 Nazi dress dagger. In your logic, that makes her a Nazi.

"In the questura he was overheard teaching Knox how to say 'I spit on your dead relative;s grave'." LOL! He was teaching her common Italian insults to pass the time.

You are a HOOT and a half!

 

[Planigale]

Not unidentified. The darkest most evil one. Guede used it as his computer pw.

You mean Sollecito had a Trump tattoo! Definitely guilty. Do you actually know what the tattoo is or do you just assume that it must be the most evil tattoo?


Do you know how many people bought a Manson record, how many people have tattoos? This is not evidence of anything.

 

[Stacyhs]

Is it any wonder why we keep coming back here? It's far more entertaining that TV!
Vixen's posts are like a news footage where they warn you that it may be shocking: you know you shouldn't look but you just can't help it.

 

[Vixen]

At one point in the life of the fake-Wiki (themurderofmeredithkercher) the sole "proof" that the Conti-Vecchiotti DNA report had been "fraudulent" was an entry they'd made that one on occasion, Francesco Maresca had quipped that he'd seen Vecchiotti having lunch with one of the defence lawyers.

It's the way the haters roll.

Really? If you were in court appearing on a charge of serious crime and the court appoints an expert witness, how would YOU feel seeing the expert witness wining and dining and laughing with the prosecution barristers? I guarantee you would feel very very angry and undermined.

That gives you an insight into why it is against Bar Standards to for barristers to consort with 'independent witnesses' or the judge or the jury, whilst a case is live.

Anything said to one party during a live trial must be said in front of the other party and the judge (and jury), within the context of the court of law.