Split Thread Issues around language and offense, with reference to transgenderism.

[xjx388]

Why, then, in the face of all evidence, are you so adamant that 2+2=5? You are wrong, let it go.



I can see you just don't get it, and at this point I'm despairing of the possibility that you ever will. If I answered a question in the affirmative about black people being some form of "n" word, I would not be able to pretend that it was everyone else's fault that they took offense to that. Similarly, you can't pretend that offense at referring to Transgender people as "defect" is the fault of those that read your words.



Well, if by "start over", you thought I meant "double down on the offense", then you sure did.

I know I'm American and all (and probably botching this somehow) but now you are just "taking the piss." You can't seriously argue that the use of "genetic defect" in the context Agumemnon just used it is offensive. That argument is just stupid.

 

[Belz...]

Why, then, in the face of all evidence, are you so adamant that 2+2=5?

Well, we'll add analogies to the list of things you don't understand. YOU're the one saying that 2+2=5 and I should accept it.

I can see you just don't get it

Stop projecting. What I described is exactly what happened. Get over your feelings and offense politics and move on.

Well, if by "start over", you thought I meant "double down on the offense", then you sure did.

I don't care if you're offended. If you can't discuss the issue because you are emotionally overwhelmed by words, that is your problem, not mine.

 

[wareyin]

Well, we'll add analogies to the list of things you don't understand. YOU're the one saying that 2+2=5 and I should accept it.

No. I'm the one arguing that 2+2=4, showing calculations, how, and why. You are ignoring all that to stamp your foot and insist 2+2=purple.

Stop projecting. What I described is exactly what happened. Get over your feelings and offense politics and move on.

I don't care if you're offended. If you can't discuss the issue because you are emotionally overwhelmed by words, that is your problem, not mine.

Similarly, when the KKK talked about those uppity negroes, it was only the fault of those that took offense, not those brave souls who were just discussing the issue. I am always so proud of those that kick the minority in order to show solidarity with those who are oppressing them.


Oh, wait, no, I'm not.

 

[wareyin]

I know I'm American and all (and probably botching this somehow) but now you are just "taking the piss." You can't seriously argue that the use of "genetic defect" in the context Agumemnon just used it is offensive. That argument is just stupid.

No, I am quite serious. I am also American, and I don't know a single person who is happy to be called a "defect" or "genetic defect" or any other variation on defect. Honestly, I would be quite surprised if you did know anyone who was OK being called any form of defect.

 

[ehcks]

No, I am quite serious. I am also American, and I don't know a single person who is happy to be called a "defect" or "genetic defect" or any other variation on defect. Honestly, I would be quite surprised if you did know anyone who was OK being called any form of defect.

If someone told me my blue eyes are a genetic defect I'd shrug. But no one's ever harassed me for having blue eyes. No one's trying to ban me from going to an optometrist for having blue eyes. No presidential candidate has ever made up a fear of blue eyes to get religious people to vote for them.

 

[wareyin]

If someone told me my blue eyes are a genetic defect I'd shrug. But no one's ever harassed me for having blue eyes. No one's trying to ban me from going to an optometrist for having blue eyes. No presidential candidate has ever made up a fear of blue eyes to get religious people to vote for them.

Exactly. Those brave KKK members who are talking about those uppity negroes aren't just having a dispassionate academic discussion.

 

[cullennz]

I wish people would stop comparing what trans genders have a problem with to the KKK and slavery.

It makes you look a bit silly

 

[mcb77]

Wareyin, i have spina bifida, i was born with a *********** hole at the base of my spine which nearly killed me at birth and has affected my legs in that they don't work properly. I've been discriminated against, called all sorts of different horrible things, i've even been physically attacked just because i look like an easy target, the people who did those things are bigots and dicks, someone saying i have a defect, not so much, because as you might guess having a hole in your spine is not normal its a *********** defect.

For someone who has argued so vehemently about how bad the term is, did you honestly suggest anomaly as a better term because a synonym for that would be abnormal, you know, the same sort of loaded marginalizing term that you totally derailed a thread over.

 

[Belz...]

No. I'm the one arguing that 2+2=4, showing calculations, how, and why.

No, you're insisting that 2+2=5 in this context. I've explained this to you already and, ironically, you refuse to accept it, or pretend to.

Similarly, when the KKK talked about those uppity negroes, it was only the fault of those that took offense, not those brave souls who were just discussing the issue. I am always so proud of those that kick the minority in order to show solidarity with those who are oppressing them.

You asked me to start over, so I summarized my position. Did you expect me to change my mind and agree with you because you wanted to start over?

And now you're comparing me with the KKK! You are so emotionally invested in this nonsense that you see anyone who disagrees with you as the enemy, on par with that hate group. That should say everything that anyone needs to know about you.

Never mind that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand: no one's proposing to oppress anyone, or defending the oppressors, and the KKK's crimes aren't their use of the n-word, but their murderous ways. But I guess you don't see the difference between using scientifically-accurate term when discussing a set of human physical characteristics, and wanting to bully and kill people of a particular group.

You are an ideologue.

 

[wareyin]

Wareyin, i have spina bifida, i was born with a *********** hole at the base of my spine which nearly killed me at birth and has affected my legs in that they don't work properly. I've been discriminated against, called all sorts of different horrible things, i've even been physically attacked just because i look like an easy target, the people who did those things are bigots and dicks, someone saying i have a defect, not so much, because as you might guess having a hole in your spine is not normal its a *********** defect.

For someone who has argued so vehemently about how bad the term is, did you honestly suggest anomaly as a better term because a synonym for that would be abnormal, you know, the same sort of loaded marginalizing term that you totally derailed a thread over.

You have been physically attacked because you have a health issue? I don't think this is the same thing as transgender people are going through.

Eta: To clarify, it appears you were attacked by one or more lowlife people who thought you were an easy target. That sucks, and you have my condolences. Did those attackers have governmental backing? Are 11 states suing for the right to marginalize and oppress people with spina bifida?

 

[cullennz]

You have been physically attacked because you have a health issue? I don't think this is the same thing as transgender people are going through.

I think you are exaggerating it.

Well in NZ

 

[wareyin]

No, you're insisting that 2+2=5 in this context. I've explained this to you already and, ironically, you refuse to accept it, or pretend to.

No. Provide some support for your assertion and you may begin to pretend that your assertion has some basis in reality. As it stands, you are merely asserting that 2+2=5 while demanding that the dictionary, medical professionals, and everyone else change what they already know to accommodate your intentionally offensive vocabulary.

You asked me to start over, so I summarized my position. Did you expect me to change my mind and agree with you because you wanted to start over?

And now you're comparing me with the KKK! You are so emotionally invested in this nonsense that you see anyone who disagrees with you as the enemy, on par with that hate group. That should say everything that anyone needs to know about you.

Never mind that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand: no one's proposing to oppress anyone, or defending the oppressors, and the KKK's crimes aren't their use of the n-word, but their murderous ways. But I guess you don't see the difference between using scientifically-accurate term when discussing a set of human physical characteristics, and wanting to bully and kill people of a particular group.

You are an ideologue.

No one is proposing to oppress anyone? What do you think the intent of not allowing transgender people into public bathrooms is? Seriously, do you not know that transgender people are bullied and killed?

 

[wareyin]

I think you are exaggerating it.

Well in NZ

I'm not. That poster was attacked by some lowlife people who thought they were an easy target. Transgender people are similarly attacked, but in the US their attacker often have governmental backing. Right now, 11 states are suing the federal government over the right to force transgender people to use the wrong bathroom.

 

[cullennz]

I'm not. That poster was attacked by some lowlife people who thought they were an easy target. Transgender people are similarly attacked, but in the US their attacker often have governmental backing. Right now, 11 states are suing the federal government over the right to force transgender people to use the wrong bathroom.

So in the US

Bit stupid

 

[Belz...]

No. Provide some support for your assertion and you may begin to pretend that your assertion has some basis in reality.

You want me to provide support for my assertion that we're in an academic context where we're dispassionately discussing issues? Do you even know where you are?

No one is proposing to oppress anyone? What do you think the intent of not allowing transgender people into public bathrooms is?

What does that have to do with what we're discussing? Using "genetic defect" has nothing to do with oppression or bathrooms.

Once again you cannot distinguish between two conversations or terms, and are getting confused by simple issues.

 

[Belz...]

I'm not. That poster was attacked by some lowlife people who thought they were an easy target. Transgender people are similarly attacked, but in the US their attacker often have governmental backing.

Please provide evidence that the government backs lowlives attacking transgender people. That is quite a stupid accusation.

 

[wareyin]

You want me to provide support for my assertion that we're in an academic context where we're dispassionately discussing issues? Do you even know where you are?

Yes. Electronically speaking, we are both in a social issues and current events discussion area, not an academic setting. Do you know where you are?

What does that have to do with what we're discussing? Using "genetic defect" has nothing to do with oppression or bathrooms.

Once again you cannot distinguish between two conversations or terms, and are getting confused by simple issues.

Let me be sure I understand you. Referring to transgender people in dehumanizing terms like "defect", terms that even the dictionary point out are offensive, has nothing to do with oppression? And, though this thread was begun about the federal push to force states to stop oppressing transgender people with bathrooms before being split off into your 12 page long fight for the right to continue using offensive terms to describe transgender people, you think bathroom usage has nothing to do with it?

 

[wareyin]

Please provide evidence that the government backs lowlives attacking transgender people. That is quite a stupid accusation.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/25/politics/texas-lawsuit-barack-obama-transgender/

 

[ehcks]

Wareyin, i have spina bifida, i was born with a *********** hole at the base of my spine which nearly killed me at birth and has affected my legs in that they don't work properly. I've been discriminated against, called all sorts of different horrible things, i've even been physically attacked just because i look like an easy target, the people who did those things are bigots and dicks, someone saying i have a defect, not so much, because as you might guess having a hole in your spine is not normal its a *********** defect.

For someone who has argued so vehemently about how bad the term is, did you honestly suggest anomaly as a better term because a synonym for that would be abnormal, you know, the same sort of loaded marginalizing term that you totally derailed a thread over.

Okay. Spina bifida is a defect because it negatively affects your life. It directly causes you to be unable to do things most other people take for granted.

Transgenderism doesn't do that. The only negative effect it has on a person is that bigots harass them for it.

Calling down syndrome a defect still offends people. Calling autism a defect offends people. Transgenderism isn't even like those.

Calling transgenderism a defect is like calling lefthandedness a defect and then beating them up for having it.

 

[ehcks]

You want me to provide support for my assertion that we're in an academic context where we're dispassionately discussing issues? Do you even know where you are?

You've spent quite a number of pages arguing words like disorder, delusion, illness, and problem don't have negative connotations outside of a medical context. This is an applause-worthy level of stalling and avoiding the point.

You might have missed the fact that I _WAS_ discussing it in a medical context.

I'm just going to go ahead and call this a lie.