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Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?

Darat

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Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?

Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?


Couple of definitions for the above question and my post.

“Machine” – by this I don’t necessarily mean a machine that is inherently deterministic or a machine that has been created by any “designer” but rather something that can and is describe totally by the “physical” meat sack that we all seem to be able to agree we do perceive.

“Knew” – this is a “thought experiment” style of question so please try to imagine if somehow, by whatever means you require, it was “proven” just for this thread.


I know many Members strongly hold the opinion that human beings are something other than a machine and it seems to me as if some of those Members hold that opinion (at least partly) because they believe that would somehow lessen what they believe themselves and others to be (and for other emotional reasons).

I’m hoping people will post here about why they believe it makes a difference or not to the way they feel about themselves if they knew they were “just a machine”. What I’m not interested to hear about in this thread is people’s metaphysical inclinations, whether dualism/idealism/materialism is incoherent, or that everyone else’s understanding of the world is plain screwy, there are plenty of other threads to discuss the “whichness of the why”.

Here I’m asking it to be about the personal, emotional reaction to the (hypothetical) knowledge in my question.


If tomorrow someone presented evidence that persuaded me we were (or were not) “just machines” I don’t think it would make any difference to how I feel about myself. It would probably influence areas I would look into but as a person it wouldn’t change me.

If I’m just a bag of chemicals that reacts to stimulus from my environment I can’t see why that would or even should make me feel less about my perceived individualism or humanity. That it could be proven that my Mother loves me because of complex physical processes seems to be an irrelevance, I would still love her and still appreciate her love, why wouldn’t I? That I enjoy reading a book or some other pastime is not diminished for me if that was proven to be nothing more then complex processes.


(The thread was inspired by a comment by Meadmaker in this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57411)


(Edited for words and formatting.)
 
Will all machines please refrain from participation. Nobody is interested in hearing automated replies.
 
lifegazer said:
Will all machines please refrain from participation. Nobody is interested in hearing automated replies.
01001111011011100010000001100010011001010110100001100001011011000110011000100000011011110110011000100000011101000110100001100101001000000110000101110101011101000110111101101101011000010111010001101111011011100111001100100000011011110110111000100000011101000110100001101001011100110010000001100010011011110110000101110010011001000011101000100000011011100111100101100001011010000010000001101110011110010110000101101000001000000110111001111001011000010110100000100000011011100111100101100001011010000010000001101110011110010110000101101000001011000010000001100001011011100110010000100000011110010110111101110101011100100010000001101100011010010111010001110100011011000110010100100000011001000110111101100111001011000010000001110100011011110110111100101110
 
Please forgive Yahweh. Being a machine, he had no choice other than to post that drivel.
 
lifegazer said:
Please forgive Yahweh. Being a machine, he had no choice other than to post that drivel.
I dunno. I thought "0100111101101110001000000110001001100101011010000110000101101100011001100010000001101111011001100010" was pretty funny, though I will admit he might have gone too far with "0111001011000010000001110100011011110110111100101110."

On topic, though, as bjornart said it's what I already believe; it doesn't bug me at all, and never has.
 
lifegazer said:
Will all machines please refrain from participation. Nobody is interested in hearing automated replies.

I'm assuming you don’t currently hold the view that you are "just a machine"?

If my assumption is right what's your answer if it was proven we are "just a machine" would that have some emotional effect on you e.g. how you'd feel about yourself, your relationship with others and so on?
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
On topic, though, as bjornart said it's what I already believe; it doesn't bug me at all, and never has.
It doesn't matter what you think or feel. You're a machine and have no say in your output.
 
lifegazer said:
Please forgive Yahweh. Being a machine, he had no choice other than to post that drivel.
010010000110000101110110011001010010000001100001001000000111001101100101011011100111001101100101001000000110111101100110001000000110100001110101011011010110111101110010001011000010000001100100011101010110010001100101 ;)
 
Darat said:
I'm assuming you don’t currently hold the view that you are "just a machine"?

If my assumption is right what's your answer if it was proven we are "just a machine" would that have some emotional effect on you e.g. how you'd feel about yourself, your relationship with others and so on?
I don't have time for a detailed response right now. But don't you see the irony in asking machines whose output has nothing to do with them, for their opinions upon this matter?
 
Would people please keep to the subject of my opening post? Jokes are fine but not to the exclusion of my intent in starting the thread.

lifegazer said:
It doesn't matter what you think or feel. You're a machine and have no say in your output.

By the way that is quite a common misconception however there is nothing unusual or contradictory about a process using its own output as part of its input.

Would you answer my OP question? It certainly seems as if you find the idea of us being "just machines" very funny therefore I'm really interested in what your response to the idea that we did prove we are "just machines".

Would it affect you?
 
lifegazer said:
I don't have time for a detailed response right now. But don't you see the irony in asking machines whose output has nothing to do with them, for their opinions upon this matter?

If that was what I was asking yes, however it isn’t and as I said I'm not interested in a metaphysical discussion but in a discussion of how you think a certain proven concept would personally affect you.
 
lifegazer said:
It doesn't matter what you think or feel. You're a machine and have no say in your output.
Which doesn't change the fact that I do think or feel. Why should the fact that I possess (some) understanding of how I think and feel disallow my enjoyment of same?
 
Wouldn't even this hypothetical soul have to operate according to rules, and is thus, in the important sense, a machine? It operates on soulstuff, whatever that is, according to soulstuffphysics, whatever they are.

Isn't you weighing ethical decisions just another cause-and-effect chain? Even if there's randomness in there (a huge stretch to suggest quantum randomness necessarily impacts thought) all that means is that your decisions are mostly deterministic with some stochastic influence thrown in. Where's the non-machine part?

I keep hearing claims of this, but cannot see any evidence.
 
Wouldn't/doesn't bother me a bit. I am what I am and that's all that I am.
 
Re: Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?

Darat said:
Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?

It would be the end of everything.
 
Re: Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine

Darat said:
Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?

I want to say that it wouldn't change how I view myself or how I act. I'm almost positive that it wouldn't change how I react to my family, or to my environment, or to my job, or any other external stimuli. And really, why should it? I don't claim to understand why or how human consciousness works. Just because I don't understand it doesn't make it stop working.

If something that I don't understand stops working, I would be unable to determine why, or to fix it. But if the basis for its functioning changes, or the underlying principles for its existence change, and yet it keeps working in exactly the same way, how would I know? How could I know?

Why would the knowledge that we are only machines, if true, change anyone's worldview or actions? Would that give license to act less than human, when you already possess that ability?
 
Re: Re: Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine

Frinkiak7 said:
Why would the knowledge that we are only machines, if true, change anyone's worldview or actions? Would that give license to act less than human, when you already possess that ability? [/B]

It would be psychologically impossible to emotionally embrace the implications of such a position. It wouldn't just mean that there would be no purpose to the Universe and your life. You would have to relinquish the notion that you are a moral agent who acts according to your will. You would even have to relinquish the notion that you are a self. Everything you are, everything you have ever experienced, everything you have ever done, everything you have ever achieved would be utterly devoid of any meaning. Your whole existence would be a meaningless delusion.
 
Re: Re: Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine”?

Interesting Ian said:
It would be the end of everything.

Do you mean you would be so emotionally affected that you'd find it impossible to carry on living?
 
Re: Re: Re: Would it change how you feel about being you if you knew you were “just a machine

Interesting Ian said:
It would be psychologically impossible to emotionally embrace the implications of such a position. It wouldn't just mean that there would be no purpose to the Universe and your life. You would have to relinquish the notion that you are a moral agent who acts according to your will. You would even have to relinquish the notion that you are a self. Everything you are, everything you have ever experienced, everything you have ever done, everything you have ever achieved would be utterly devoid of any meaning. Your whole existence would be a meaningless delusion.

Thanks for the expansion Ian, this is what I was interested in. I find it hard to step into your shoes regarding this matter, I don't see how even if everything you deduce from the fact we are just machines is true that you/I/we would feel any different then how we do now.

My view you see is it makes no difference if my "free will" is an "illusion/delusion" or is "real", whichever it is I am still going to feel like me, why would this (hypothetical knowledge) make you feel like you've become a different person?
 

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