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Words

American

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Most folks like euphemisms. I don't, and that's why I get accused of being all amoral at times.

Example: Killing = murder. Sometimes killing is OK, therefore sometimes murder is OK.

People get all mad and are like "NO NO! You can't SAY THAT!"

Hey, just because I think murder is OK at times, that don't make me a bad guy. I'm just saying that if you kill a fetus, you are a murderer, and if you kill a bad guy in war, you are a murderer. Don't go and kid yourself with word-play, cause that would be immoral!

The point is that stuff is what it is, and it don't matter if you call it killing or murder or The Great Ass Caper. I ain't gonna be your friend if you're murdering grandma, but nor is I gonna judge you if you go and murder terrorists in IRAQ.
 
I think the word "murder" is awfully value-laden and judgemental. Just because a person feels it would be appropriate to where they find themselves currently in life to provide some other with an unrequested life-transition event, doesn't mean we should label them as "murderers". Labelling someone as a "murderer" marginalizes them and they tend to become socially excluded. And by excluding any person from society surely we're just losing an opportunity to enrich our own lives?
 
American said:
Example: Killing = murder. Sometimes killing is OK, therefore sometimes murder is OK.
Click to expand...


If an issue that is important to us, we often have a number of words that allow us to make important distinctions quickly.

For instance, we distinguish between being 'a driver' and being 'a passenger' in one word alone, but being a 'passanger in the front seat' or 'a passanger in the back seat' takes an entire phrase. Our language reflects what we consider to be important.

Death is hugely important, and we have many many words to describe variants.

Kill is a generic and means causing the death of an entire living thing, although it is not commonly used to describe plants.

Slaughter applies to animals (or is used poetically to describe a situation in which humans were killed like animals).

Homicide means to kill a human. (matri- patri, regi- etc. mean to kill your mother, father, king, and so on)

Murder means killing of a human unlawfully and with malice.

Manslaughter means killing of a human unlawfully but without malice.

Suicide is killing yourself.

Euthanasia is killing a human on compassionate grounds.

Massacre, interestingly enough, means to kill a large number of either humans OR animals, but with malice.

Assasination means to muder by surprise and for political reasons.

There are any number of words to specify the method involved (garrotte, guillotine,defenestrate,suffocate,exsanguinate,etc.)

I'm sure there are many more I haven't touched on.

Killing may be considered a euphemism for murder when murder is used in its correct definition - it's the more vague option of two. Saying a soldier murders another, however is simply incorrect - there was no illegality involved. In contrast, 'putting him to sleep' is always a euphemism, because, well, you aren't.

(edited for clumsy wording)
 
Re: Re: Words

RamblingOnwards said:
If an issue that is important to us, we often have a number of words that allow us to make important distinctions quickly.

For instance, we distinguish between being 'a driver' and being 'a passenger' in one word alone, but being a 'passanger in the front seat' or 'a passanger in the back seat' takes an entire phrase. Our language reflects what we consider to be important.

Death is hugely important, and we have many many words to describe variants.

Kill is a generic and means causing the death of an entire living thing, although it is not commonly used to describe plants.

Slaughter applies to animals (or is used poetically to describe a situation in which humans were killed like animals).

Homicide means to kill a human. (matri- patri, regi- etc. mean to kill your mother, father, king, and so on)

Murder means killing of a human unlawfully and with malice.

Manslaughter means killing of a human unlawfully but without malice.

Suicide is killing yourself.

Euthanasia is killing a human on compassionate grounds.

Massacre, interestingly enough, means to kill a large number of either humans OR animals, but with malice.

Assasination means to muder by surprise and for political reasons.

There are any number of words to specify the method involved (garrotte, guillotine,defenestrate,suffocate,exsanguinate,etc.)

I'm sure there are many more I haven't touched on.

Killing may be considered a euphemism for murder when murder is used in its correct definition - it's the more vague option of two. Saying a soldier murders another, however is simply incorrect - there was no illegality involved. In contrast, 'putting him to sleep' is always a euphemism, because, well, you aren't.

(edited for clumsy wording)
Click to expand...

Great Ass Caper.
 
killing a guy during war (excluding war crimes) or in self-defense is not murder. Murder has a specific definition. That's why different words exist because they have different meanings to explain different things.

murder is defined as the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

not all killing is murder.

though every square is a rhombus.
 
American said:
Most folks like euphemisms. I don't, and that's why I get accused of being all amoral at times.

Example: Killing = murder. Sometimes killing is OK, therefore sometimes murder is OK.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well,.... you may have picked a bad example, but this isn't a euphemism. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder.

For example, US law (Section 1751(a) of Title 18, if you care) defines "murder" in the context of US criminal law. Specifically, murder is "the unlawful killing of a human being with malice." By definition, if the killing is lawful, it's not murder -- and similarly, if the killing is unlawful, but not done with malice, it's not murder, but manslaughter (defined by Section 1112 of Title 18 as "the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.") More generally, "killing" of course incorporates the killing of animals and plants that are not human, so killing my three-headed dog Fluffy, no matter how much I loved it, would not be either "murder" or "manslaughter."

Other jurisdictions may have their own definitions, of course.

But that's the basic problem. Something that you consider to be a mere synonomous euphemism may in fact, have a subtantially different meaning. If you really think that "killing = murder, and therefore murder is sometimes acceptable," then while you may not be amoral, you're coming across as it due to ignorance.
 
American said:
Most folks like euphemisms. I don't, and that's why I get accused of being all amoral at times.

Example: Killing = murder. Sometimes killing is OK, therefore sometimes murder is OK.
Click to expand...

Well, if you think sometimes killing is OK, then it's up to you. The Bible is said to say (and this is one of the few matters I may agree with it): "Thou shalt not kill", and not "thou shalt not murder".

Personally, I think killing is not OK, sometimes is the most sensible (or the least damaging, in a general meaning) thing, but it's not OK. Killing mosquitoes because they annoy us is not OK if we can just, for example, close the window. Killing wasps because we're afraid of them is not OK. Killing wild boars because they look great in our living-room is not OK. Killing criminals to "teach them a lesson" is not OK.

Leaving out the "legalese" meaning of murder, I'd say murdering is something like "killing for the sake of killing", and that's definately not OK. As others have said, not all killing is murder.
 
Re: Re: Words

Jellby said:
Bible is said to say (and this is one of the few matters I may agree with it): "Thou shalt not kill", and not "thou shalt not murder".
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Depends upon the version. I don't read Hebrew, but I'm told that in the Torah, it actually says "thou shalt not murder"
 
American said:
Example: Killing = murder. Sometimes killing is OK, therefore sometimes murder is OK.
Click to expand...

In your example, "killing" is not a euphemism for "murder", rather "murder" is a dysphemism for "killing". The two are not equivalent in most languages. If that's the way you choose to use the word, that's of course your choice, but don't be surprised to see others disagree with your choice of words.

Language is the tool we as humans use to communicate ideas to each other. For better or worse, sometimes language is ambiguous - without the ambiguity, word play as prose and poetry, jokes and even some games would be pointless, if not impossible. But in this case, there is a clear distinction between the general "killing" and the more specific "murder". Your casual failure to recognize that distinction makes no more sense than Humpty Dumpty telling Alice that "when I use a word, it means precisely what I intend it to mean, nothing more, nothing less." Saying that you mean "killing" when you say "murder" doesn't make murder any more acceptible to society, it merely means that you've used the wrong word. There is no euphemism to it.
 
Re: Re: Words

monkboon said:
In your example, "killing" is not a euphemism for "murder", rather "murder" is a dysphemism for "killing". The two are not equivalent in most languages. If that's the way you choose to use the word, that's of course your choice, but don't be surprised to see others disagree with your choice of words.

Language is the tool we as humans use to communicate ideas to each other. For better or worse, sometimes language is ambiguous - without the ambiguity, word play as prose and poetry, jokes and even some games would be pointless, if not impossible. But in this case, there is a clear distinction between the general "killing" and the more specific "murder". Your casual failure to recognize that distinction makes no more sense than Humpty Dumpty telling Alice that "when I use a word, it means precisely what I intend it to mean, nothing more, nothing less." Saying that you mean "killing" when you say "murder" doesn't make murder any more acceptible to society, it merely means that you've used the wrong word. There is no euphemism to it.
Click to expand...

Woa.

I like the Humpty thing. I think I'll use that.
 
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