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Women

David Henson

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The Hebrew term for woman is ishshah which literally means female man. It can also be rendered wife. The Greek word gyne is likewise either rendered as woman and wife.

Since God is neither male nor female as a spirit is genderless, sexless, and he created both man and woman in his image or likeness, This indicates that certain aspects of the masculine personality as well as the feminine personality are, of course, a reflection of Jehovah God.

Woman was created as a helper for man. Even in our modern society which places very little value on humility, this term, helper, is considered an insult. The Hebrew ezer is rendered helper. At Exodus 18:4, Deuteronomy 33:7 and Psalm 33:20 Jehovah God is our helper (ezer). As a helper and compliment of man the woman, with her own unique mental, physical and emotional charactoristics was far more than an assistant in their daily work but a partner in mutual support and companionship.

Critics of the Bible often look at it with a very narrow perspective. It is important, when looking at the Bible, to recognize that bad examples of wicked men were included as an example for us to that effect. These are bad examples. It is also important to recognize that God gave the earth to man as stewards to do what they will with it up to a certain point and didn't always approve of the way they were handling things but allowed it. God was tolerant of certain customs but he also regulated the treatment of women for their protection. (Exodus 21:10-11 / Deuteronomy 21:15-17)

It is unfair to judge ancient practices and customs by modern standards. What is thought to be demeaning to women today wasn't thought of in that way even 200 years ago in democratic society, let alone in ancient Bible times.

Women played an important part throughout Bible history, as judges, prophetesses and as an extremely important part of the early Christian ministerial effort.
 
Your point? This does nothing to establish the Bible as true. Why don't you respond to the rebuttals - which you specifically requested - over in the other thread if you want to make a case for your religion?
 
Do you mean that democratic society of two hundred years ago in which ownership of slaves was legal and common place?
 
David Henson said:
It is unfair to judge ancient practices and customs by modern standards.
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No, it's not.

By differentiating between the morality of old and the morality of today, you are introducing a world of problems to your theology. I'm hoping you will agree that there are immoral commandments in regards to the treatment of women (a woman being forced to marry the man that raped her, for example). Given that, was it immoral at the time of the Bible? If not, then morality can change, and we have no way of knowing what it is. If it was immoral at that time, then your god is commanding people to be evil.

It's sick, nonsensical mythology through and through.
 
David Henson said:
It is unfair to judge ancient practices and customs by modern standards. What is thought to be demeaning to women today wasn't thought of in that way even 200 years ago in democratic society, let alone in ancient Bible times.
Click to expand...
So, the Bible reflects the culture at the time it was written?
 
David Henson said:
Since God is neither male nor female as a spirit is genderless, sexless, and he created both man and woman in his image or likeness, This indicates that certain aspects of the masculine personality as well as the feminine personality are, of course, a reflection of Jehovah God.
Click to expand...


Coincidentia oppositorum?
 
David Henson said:
The Hebrew term for woman is ishshah which literally means female man.
Click to expand...
Female individual.

For example, "ish et re'ehu" = "one another".

David Henson said:
Since God is neither male nor female
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According to what source?


David Henson said:
Jehovah
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Or Yahweh, as intentionally misspelled by the Masorets?

David Henson said:
God was tolerant of certain customs but he also regulated the treatment of women for their protection. (Exodus 21:10-11 / Deuteronomy 21:15-17)
Click to expand...
If "tolerant" = "neither preventing nor punishing in this life", the tolerance extends to... well... everything and anything brutal that humans ever did to others in history.

David Henson said:
It is unfair to judge ancient practices and customs by modern standards.
Click to expand...
Right... from a humanistic and atheistic viewpoint. But what if the practices are said to be dictated by eternal and omniscient God word by word? Or did you just confess that the limitations of human understanding and moral thinking define and limit the religion that we are discussing?

Would you clarify, what else in this religion is defined and limited by the contemporary human thinking and understanding of each era? And what in this religion is divinely free from any such limitations?
 
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David Henson said:
Since God is neither male nor female as a spirit is genderless, sexless, and he created both man and woman in his image or likeness, This indicates that certain aspects of the masculine personality as well as the feminine personality are, of course, a reflection of Jehovah God.
Click to expand...
That's why Jehovah is referred to as a "She" as often as a "He" and as "Mother" as often as "Father." Oh wait.

Woman was created as a helper for man. Even in our modern society which places very little value on humility, this term, helper, is considered an insult.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you're going for a separate but equal argument here. Would you be as pleased with your theology if man was created as a helper for woman?

As a helper and compliment of man the woman, with her own unique mental, physical and emotional charactoristics was far more than an assistant in their daily work but a partner in mutual support and companionship.
Click to expand...
And why the man is called the helpmate (of helpmeet) of the woman so often in the bible. Because they're equals. Except for the whole concept of women being the property of men.....and oh wait. That never happens either.

God was tolerant of certain customs but he also regulated the treatment of women for their protection. (Exodus 21:10-11 / Deuteronomy 21:15-17)
Click to expand...
Tolerant of what ancient customs? Rape perhaps? And what were the women being protected from - other men maybe? He allowed men to take women as concubines, which is just a euphemism for sex slave or rape victim, take your pick. (I think that's what god said to all his chosen men - "See those women over there. Take your pick! Enjoy. It's for their own protection.")

Why would god have to be tolerant of certain customs or regulate the treatment of women for protection from other men, when he could have just kicked some male butt and told them that women were their equals and they should be treated as human beings, instead of property and sexual vessels?

It is unfair to judge ancient practices and customs by modern standards.
Click to expand...
No it isn't.

What is thought to be demeaning to women today wasn't thought of in that way even 200 years ago in democratic society, let alone in ancient Bible times.
Click to expand...
And yet 200 years ago, women were still the property of men and weren't allowed to vote. Thanks, Bible!

Do you think that women in ancient times were happy to be sex slaves of conquering tribes? Do you think that the regular drudge slaves were jealous of the sex slaves of their masters? Do you think the women felt any better because they were told some sort of sick perverted god told them it was their duty to rape women? Don't forget that alongside these men that we're "not allowed to judge by our standards" were real live women, whose lives were an absolute misery.

Women played an important part throughout Bible history, as judges, prophetesses and as an extremely important part of the early Christian ministerial effort.
Click to expand...
Enough to outnumber all the women who were merely pieces of property, victims of rape and incest, and temptresses of weak-willed men? And I've never understood why women buy into the christian mindset, except that so many women still have a hard time believing that they are in charge of their own lives, and instead will live with men who treat them in less-than-equal ways for "their own good" or "their own protection."
 
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David Henson said:
The Hebrew term for woman is ishshah which literally means female man. It can also be rendered wife. The Greek word gyne is likewise either rendered as woman and wife.

Since God is neither male nor female as a spirit is genderless, sexless, and he created both man and woman in his image or likeness, This indicates that certain aspects of the masculine personality as well as the feminine personality are, of course, a reflection of Jehovah God.

Woman was created as a helper for man. Even in our modern society which places very little value on humility, this term, helper, is considered an insult. The Hebrew ezer is rendered helper. At Exodus 18:4, Deuteronomy 33:7 and Psalm 33:20 Jehovah God is our helper (ezer). As a helper and compliment of man the woman, with her own unique mental, physical and emotional charactoristics was far more than an assistant in their daily work but a partner in mutual support and companionship.

Critics of the Bible often look at it with a very narrow perspective. It is important, when looking at the Bible, to recognize that bad examples of wicked men were included as an example for us to that effect. These are bad examples. It is also important to recognize that God gave the earth to man as stewards to do what they will with it up to a certain point and didn't always approve of the way they were handling things but allowed it. God was tolerant of certain customs but he also regulated the treatment of women for their protection. (Exodus 21:10-11 / Deuteronomy 21:15-17)

It is unfair to judge ancient practices and customs by modern standards. What is thought to be demeaning to women today wasn't thought of in that way even 200 years ago in democratic society, let alone in ancient Bible times.

Women played an important part throughout Bible history, as judges, prophetesses and as an extremely important part of the early Christian ministerial effort.
Click to expand...

What is the point? You refuse to enter into any kind of meaningful discussion,you've demonstrated that on other threads.
 
David Henson said:
God was tolerant of certain customs but he also regulated the treatment of women for their protection. (Exodus 21:10-11 / Deuteronomy 21:15-17)
Click to expand...

KJV said:
Exodus 21
10-If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
11-And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
Click to expand...


dio translation:

If a guy takes a second wife, he can still keep the first one if he wants(21-10), OR he can just tell her to GTFO, if that's what he wants.(21-11)

Protection FAIL.
 
David, just a little OT, but do you have any thoughts about the translation problems with "virgin" vs "young woman"?

Ive heard it said that "virgin" is a mistranslation.
 
Pure_Argent said:
Your point? This does nothing to establish the Bible as true. Why don't you respond to the rebuttals - which you specifically requested - over in the other thread if you want to make a case for your religion?
Click to expand...

I went there and all I could find was the Deathclaw.
 
devnull said:
David, just a little OT, but do you have any thoughts about the translation problems with "virgin" vs "young woman"?

Ive heard it said that "virgin" is a mistranslation.
Click to expand...

You are more than likely more knowledgable in what the Christian aplogetics have to say on that. I abandoned that arena years ago after only briefly entertaining it.

Unless you give me specific scripture I can only assume exactly what you mean.

The Hebrew bethulah is a unmarried woman regardless of age who has never had sexual intercourse. The Greek word parthenos differs in that it can apply to both male and female unmarried. The Hebrew term almah appears at Isaiah 7:14 and is translated "maiden." Almah can apply to a virgin or nonvirgin.
 
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dio said:
dio translation:

If a guy takes a second wife, he can still keep the first one if he wants(21-10), OR he can just tell her to GTFO, if that's what he wants.(21-11)

Protection FAIL.
Click to expand...

Not a very careful interpretation, dio.

The verses are dealing with a woman's right to have children if she wants them. This was a law of Israel, and nothing to do with the Christian. If a man married a woman who had no inheritance then the husband was obligated upon her request, even if there was another wife, to give her children so that her family line and thus inheritance could continue. This was such an important law the Jehovah even provided further protection in the brother in law marriage law where if a husband died before fathering children and the woman didn't remarry the brother in law was obliged to marry and father the widow's children for the same reason.

The young woman engaged to be married also had rights over her the army as far as her future husband up to a year after marriage for the same reason. (Deuteronomy 20:1-5, 7; 24:5)
 
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