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Wireless Networks and Morality

EHLO

Critical Thinker
EHLO
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
273
Just a quick one... I recently got myself a new laptop, a mac book pro, which incidentally I am not in love with yet despite the giddy delight mac owners experience when I tell them I have switched - anyway, I was setting my wireless network up only to discover that my neighbours have a completely open access point, not to mention sharing of their personal "My Documents" folders.

I few tests revealed that in the area of the house where I intend to use the laptop, connection to their AP and the internet in general is far better than the connection I get to my access point which is further away (and shaped because I've blown my quota... again...).

So... is it wrong to steal bandwidth from the ignorant, or should I fess up and show them how to secure their AP?

If I do fess up, how do I tell them how I knew which neighbour it was? (without confessing to browsing through their photo album)

Hmmm... sounds bad now that I say it...
 
There is no need to admit you've been browsing their documents folder. You could have located the open access point just by following the signal strength.

Now you could tell them quite truthfully that their open access point is interfering with your new computers ability to connect to your own access point and demand that they secure it.

And welcome to the Mac world. It may take you a while to get used to the differences. 10.1 or 10.2 would be closer to where windows in now but your new powerbook probably can't run an OS that old and you might as well get over the shock in one jump.
 
I feel better now - I found an out in that their broadcast computer name tells me who they are as well. I'll tell them once the rest of Buffy series 7 has finished downloading (don't laugh - I couldn't bring myself to do it using my own bandwidth!)

As for the Mac world, it's a nice machine and as a Solaris user from way back I like the underlying OS, I just expected *more*. I should have known better - it's just a computer after all, and I'm not usually a sucker for marketing. Imagine my surprise when I went to play a video file and needed to download a new codec!

I am a sucker for good design, but pretty only goes so far...

Have I derailed my own thread already?
 
Derailing your own thread is SOP on most forums.

In my neck of the woods, using others connection is, technically, theft. However, since the vast majority of accounts, and surely those that keep an open wireless connection, are flat-rate, it is difficult to see how the connection owner looses anything.

Still, it is, of course, entirely stupid to have a non-secure connection.

Hans
 
You can always download strange pictures from the net and put them in their My Documents folder. They just may get the hint. Of course, I learned the hard way that looking at files is a simple misdemeanor and adding/changing/deleting files is a serious misdemeanor, at least in this neck of the woods.
 
Would you go into the neighbors' house and use their telephone without their knowledge? Does it matter if it costs them anything?

MRC_Hans said:
In my neck of the woods, using others connection is, technically, theft. However, since the vast majority of accounts, and surely those that keep an open wireless connection, are flat-rate, it is difficult to see how the connection owner looses anything.
Click to expand...
Unless you are, say, downloading TV programs (illegally?) at maximum bandwidth, reducing the owners' ability to concurrently access the internet.
 
Sounds more like a case of the neighbors not knowing how to set things up, as opposed to knowingly sharing their network.

If you're friendly with them, I'd show them how to secure it ASAP. Tell them that they're leaving it wide open - even show them the "My Documents" access if they need a little frightening nudge to lock up security.

Then continue to use your own connection. Unless your neighbors specifically give consent, I think using theirs is the wrong thing to do.
 
abkaiser said:
Then continue to use your own connection. Unless your neighbors specifically give consent, I think using theirs is the wrong thing to do.
Click to expand...
Of course it's the wrong thing to do. In this case, the OP obviously has some bandwidth cap as he admits to having his traffic shaped. It's only reasonable to assume that his neighbours have such a cap too. So he is stealing their bandwidth.

Never mind the fact that, if these Buffy episodes are illegal downloads, he is effectively framing his neighbours for the crime he is committing.
 
Well I don't think there is any question that pinching their bandwidth or download quota is wrong (broadband is still relatively expensive in these parts) but it's just so tempting!

Michael Redman said:
Would you go into the neighbors' house and use their telephone without their knowledge? Does it matter if it costs them anything?
Click to expand...

This reminds me of a funny situation my parents had years ago where their neighbours bought the same cordless phone as them. If the neighbour made a call from his shed, it would actually go through my parents base station - unbeknownst to all.

I could plead ignorance myself as my Mac seems to always choose their network when I switch on, presumably because it can't seem to remember my WEP password so just moves to the next available AP.
 
EHLO said:
I could plead ignorance myself as my Mac seems to always choose their network when I switch on, presumably because it can't seem to remember my WEP password so just moves to the next available AP.
Click to expand...
No, it's because now you've told it your neighbour's network is OK, it always uses it.

I don't know why your Mac doesn't remember your WEP password, I've never had that problem. You probably forgot to click the "remember this network" button in the password dialog box. Have a look in your keychain and see if the WEP password is stored there.

BTW you should move to WPA. I think WEP is considered insecure nowadays.
 
jeremyp said:
No, it's because now you've told it your neighbour's network is OK, it always uses it.

I don't know why your Mac doesn't remember your WEP password, I've never had that problem. You probably forgot to click the "remember this network" button in the password dialog box. Have a look in your keychain and see if the WEP password is stored there.

BTW you should move to WPA. I think WEP is considered insecure nowadays.
Click to expand...

Oops - WPA, that's what I meant, and you're right - it is more secure.

I'll have to look into the keychain thingy as I can't see an entry for my AP there. I have my AP set as the primary preferred network in Network preferences but every time I shutdown and re-start the computer automatically connects to their network. When I manually switch to my AP I am always prompted for the password, with no request to save the details to the keychain. (This is a pain because the password is quite long!)
 
10.5, after my first disappointment that they shipped the thing with 10.4 and I had to upgrade myself - which seemed to take a ridiculously long time - so our relationship didn't start off too well!

The problem seems fixed now - I was playing around with another network so had bumped my AP down in the Network preferences list. When I bumped it back to the top it asked for the password AND if I wanted to save it in my keychain.

So far it's been fine (after a couple of restarts) though I don't know why it didn't do that before.
 
EHLO said:
10.5, after my first disappointment that they shipped the thing with 10.4 and I had to upgrade myself - which seemed to take a ridiculously long time - so our relationship didn't start off too well!
Click to expand...

I've been telling my user group that it's better to get the machine with 10.4 and an upgrade to 10.5 (assuming you get it for free). That way if there is a serious problem with 10.5 you would have 10.4 to fall back on. So far I haven't seen any major problems so I guess you did go through that upgrade hassle for nothing.
 
Michael Redman said:
Would you go into the neighbors' house and use their telephone without their knowledge? Does it matter if it costs them anything?
Click to expand...

I would argue it's more akin to being able to watch your neighbors' television from your living room window. They should be encrypting the signal (closing the curtains).
 
This reminds me of a deep discussion I had once over radio scanners. Since the telephone signals from the neighbor's cordless are in my house, shouldn't I have the right to listen to them? If they didn't want me to listen, they should keep them out my house. Anyway, it's a good topic to bring up when you're bored.
 
1337_part_1.png

from xkcd
 
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