• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Why do so many of my favorite books involve magic?

FattyCatty

Picky V. Nitty
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
2,338
Why do so many of my favorite books involve magic? I'm thinking of The Witches of Karres, the Vlad Taltos series, the Lord of the Rings, the Narnia books, The Deed of Paksenarrion, the Valdemar books, the Meredith Gentry series, the Lord Darcy books, the Sookie Stackhouse series, many of Simon R. Green's books, many of Andre Norton's books, the Ozark Fantasy Trilogy, lots of Tanya Huff's books.

From my younger days, The Wizard of Oz and the series, some of E. Nesbit's books, George McDonald, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, Mary Poppins, The Sword in the Stone.

Do any of you more rational people enjoy books with magic? Which ones?
 
Fantasy is wonderful stuff. Any set of rules is arbitrary; it's coherence within that ruleset that makes something believable. There's no reason we can't enjoy a story set in a universe using a different ruleset.
 
Alice in Wonderland is classic. The Black Magician is great. Discworld is silly yet thought-provoking. The Saga of Recluse is engrossing. Robert Aspirin's Myth Adventures is hilarious. Twilight is... readable (excluding the last novel).

Probably the reason so many of your favorite books involve magic is because adding magic (or super-science) to a story opens up a wide range of possibilities not available in a mundane novel.
 
Last edited:
Fantasy is wonderful stuff. Any set of rules is arbitrary; it's coherence within that ruleset that makes something believable. There's no reason we can't enjoy a story set in a universe using a different ruleset.
That's true. It's hard to enjoy a book with an inconsistent world. You get too caught up in (and in my case, angry with) the inconsistencies to enjoy the book. I like the internal logic and attention to detail it takes to develop a different basis for reality.:) Thanks for clarifying that idea for me.


Alice in Wonderland is classic. The Black Magician is great. Discworld is silly yet thought-provoking. The Saga of Recluse is engrossing. Robert Aspirin's Myth Adventures is hilarious. Twilight is... readable (excluding the last novel).

Probably the reason so many of your favorite books involve magic is because adding magic (or super-science) to a story opens up a wide range of possibilities not available in a mundane novel.
This is true. I do also enjoy non-magical science fiction with different technologies. Although, excluding the obligatory technology, a lot of those are basically good old adventure stories, which I also like (e.g., H. Rider Haggard's King Solomon's Mines and Anthony Hope's The Prisoner of Zenda)
 
Thanks for the memory. I haven't read 'The Witches of Karres' in years. I remember liking that one because the magic was almost like misunderstood mental technology; the little witch girls with the space drive made of magic and wire scraps for example. Now I need to find a copy.
 
Yes and I don't know why.

I prefer the Khaavren Romances to the Taltos books. I'm also a fan of Greg Keyes' "Age of Unreason" and "The Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone" serieseseseseses. And I'm currently digging the Deverry Cycle by Katherine Kerr. I also find Margaret Weiss & Tracy Hickman's stuff a guilty pleasure.
 
It's because materialistic reality is so heartless and brutal that a little magic would go a long way to resolving the deep internal tensions created by a mind evolved to be delusional, biased and grandiose to help ensure survival.
 
It's because materialistic reality is so heartless and brutal that a little magic would go a long way to resolving the deep internal tensions created by a mind evolved to be delusional, biased and grandiose to help ensure survival.
I'm not sure, but are you (specific) saying I (specific) have a delusional, biased, and grandiose mind? Or are you (specific) speaking generally? (If you mean my (specific) mind, I'm not saying you're wrong.)

What if my reality is not materialistic (I'm hardly in the financial position to be seriously materialistic -- I do have a lot of books from times of greater material wealth)? Is it still heartless and brutal? Or just sad and uncaring? You've got me really confused now. I'll just have to go back to reading my (non-magical) science-fiction adventure story so I don't have to think about what the world is like in any reality.
 
I think it's like Aesop's Fables. Aesop used talking animals to help his readers form a willing suspension of disbelief. Because there is magic in the story you are more willing to ignore any holes in the story. Magic makes it "just a story" and thus you hold it to a less strenuous standard than you would a non-fantasy novel.

A really well written fantasy world can even have the added fun of trying to figure out how the world works. It's a mystery that any skeptic/scientist would find enjoyable while still being divorced enough from the real world that you don't find yourself thinking "no, it doesn't work that way". I've often felt that skeptics are poorly written in many fantasy horror movies. The skeptic should be the first one to accept the evidence of their senses and try to figure out how the monster works.
 
I am the hardest-core skeptic you will find, but I use the supernatural as plot devices all the time because they are fun. My modest examples:

Vengeful ghosts:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A-Novel-and-Efficient-Synthesis-of-Cadaverine

The spirit of the smartest person who ever lived - oh, and God hisself:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19550880/GUT-The-Grand-Unified-Theory-A-oneact-play-with-seven-blackouts

Tarot cards as a dating aid:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13651346/The-EightFoot-Bride-an-original-screenplay
 
One of my favorite authors, HP Lovecraft, was a firm atheist (though he says in theory he was agnostic). Yet his stories are full of weirdness and sometimes even magic.

Of course... he was a bit odd.

Just a bit. :)
 
Why do so many of my favorite books involve magic? I'm thinking of The Witches of Karres, the Vlad Taltos series, the Lord of the Rings, the Narnia books, The Deed of Paksenarrion, the Valdemar books, the Meredith Gentry series, the Lord Darcy books, the Sookie Stackhouse series, many of Simon R. Green's books, many of Andre Norton's books, the Ozark Fantasy Trilogy, lots of Tanya Huff's books.

From my younger days, The Wizard of Oz and the series, some of E. Nesbit's books, George McDonald, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, Mary Poppins, The Sword in the Stone.

Do any of you more rational people enjoy books with magic? Which ones?

I wouldn't worry much. At least in my case, most of my forms of entertainment revolve around stuff I seriously don't believe in or don't do IRL. And I don't mean just books. I'm a firm proponent of enlightened self-interest, but I play some nasty villains in City Of Heroes. (And it's not just being a proponent, I already know that if people didn't help each other without awaiting a reward, I'd have died two decades ago fair and square. Tends to drive the point home quite brutally.) I'm a pacifist, but listen to Manowar. Etc. I don't see any problem with escaping in a different kind of fantasy, precisely because it's different, and because I know it's just a harmless fantasy.

Heck, even religion, I'm an atheist, but can take the piss out of the bible with exact quotes like the best of them. Well, ok, maybe that's not a contradiction :p
 
Last edited:
The Witches of Karres (original novel, that is) is one of my all-time favorite: I even named one of my cats Goth.

If you want an updated view of magic, try Charles Stross's Laundry series, especially The Fuller Memorandum: Lovecraftian magic explained as a branch of arcane applied mathematics, plus the boss from hell (literally).
 
Fantasy is wonderful stuff. Any set of rules is arbitrary; it's coherence within that ruleset that makes something believable. There's no reason we can't enjoy a story set in a universe using a different ruleset.

You've just expressed why I'm so dissatisfied with a mystery series I've been reading.

Rant coming your way -- duck!

Jacqueline Winspear's "Maisie Dobbs" books are presented as straightforward cozy-mystery stories, set in the 1930s: they purport to be operating in our universe, to be using the ruleset we function under every day. Except that the heroine is, although it's never acknowledged on the covers or in the promotional material, magic. It's cheating to say "This is a mystery story and nothing else", and then to have your detective character know what people are going to say before they say it. Or to have her -- flawlessly and inerrantly -- perceive someone else's emotions and even physical sensations by mimicking that other's body language. Or to have her know where a violent crime happened, because the place feels cold. Or to have her figure out a missing woman's thoughts and feelings by meditating in the woman's bedroom:
Maisie concentrated on her breathing, stilling both her body and her mind, and she began to feel the strength of emotion that resided in the room. This was Charlotte's refuge while in the house and had become a receptacle for her every thought, feeling, inspiration, reflection, and wish. And as she sat in meditation, Maisie felt that Charlotte had been deeply troubled and that her departure had little to do with a broken engagement. Charlotte Waite had run away, but what was she running from? Or to? What had caused such an intense ache in her heart that even now in her room, Maisie felt Charlotte's lingering sorrow?
It IS possible to set mystery stories in a world of magic. Think of Randall Garrett! He set his "Lord Darcy" stories in an alternate twentieth century where magic and sorcery have been subject to legitimate "scientific" study and exploration for eight hundred years. Garrett did put a very strong and coherent ruleset -- thank you for those words -- around the functioning of magic in his universe, around who could use it and what they could and could not do with it. Winspear doesn't do this. She pulls things out of the general vicinity of her seat cushion. The book I most recently read (not the latest in the series -- I have three more to go, if I can stomach them) abruptly retconned the heroine's family history to give her a Roma ("Gypsy") grandmother -- after introducing as guest characters a tribe of "Gypsies". The scene that had me jumping up and down and screaming and throwing the book across the room was the bit where the tribe's requisite Wise Old Woman character taught Maisie to dowse. Or, more precisely, showed her how to use her inborn talent for dowsing. And it gets worse: the first thing she finds by dowsing is her treasured watch. Her silver watch. And one element of the plot involves a search for some stolen silver goods.

This is cheating. It's cheating to suddenly announce that your character has a magical ability that enables her to solve the mystery, and to give it no more basis or grounding than "Well she just CANNNNNNNN."
 
Easily, I don't like it.:D
I loved it except maybe one of the books. But I also 'read' them all as audio books and the reader is absolutely fantastic as book readers go. I 'read' a lot of books while commuting.

I don't need magic in my books but I love fantasy be it magic or scifi. I'm in a fantasy mood this year.
 
Last edited:
Escapism?
Probably, but why then don't I prefer other forms of escapism. I do like many mysteries, which could also be called escapism; however, that is partly because I like things to work out; be resolved; come to a satisfying conclusion; have good triumph over evil; etc.

If escapism were the only reason, why wouldn't I prefer truly escapist romances? Or spy stories? Or horror? If I ever enjoy any of those, it's because the author is a good writer with a good story, not because of the genre. This excepts horror, which I never read (having been frightened out of my wits as a child by watching Twilight Zone on TV).
 
Why do so few of my favourite books involve someone sitting in an office all day?
 

Back
Top Bottom