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Why do people lie?

Cuddles

Penultimate Amazing
C
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
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As I see it, there are three main categories of lies. The first is lies that don't really matter, which can be divided into two groups. There are those who don't know any better, such as children or the mentally handicapped, are expected to lie sometimes. They need to be taught that it is wrong, but things like "No, I didn't wet the bed" are all just a part of growing up. The other group is little white lies that don't hurt anyone and are generally just to make the world a slightly nicer place for someone. For example, "No, your bum doesn't look big in that" or "Santa Claus doesn't exist" are technically lies, but just aren't anything to worry about.

The second category is wilful liars. People who know they're lying and do so on purpose, for a purpose. For example, a person selling a device to cure cancer. They know full well they are lying, but do so anyway for their own benefit. I think this sort of lie is wrong, but I can at least understand why people do this. If homeopaths all stopped lying, most of them would end up without jobs, so they have a vested interest in doing so.

My question is really about the third category, which is people who tell lies for no apparent reason. Both on this site and elsewhere I have seen many people claiming to know something they obviously don't or pretending to be something they're not, yet most of the time I really can't work out why. It doesn't benefit them in terms of money or reputation, it doesn't help make their arguments any better, it doesn't achieve anything except make them look silly when they are found out. My question is, why do people do this?

A perfect example would be Malcolm Kirkman, who some people may know from the conspiracy subforum. He had some (rather odd) theories about the collapse of the Twin Towers. This in itself isn't a problem, he might really believe it and might really think he was presenting real evidence. However, he then went on to make various claims about himself, including being rich enough to buy all our houses out from under us. Why? Being rich doesn't make your arguments any more right. Being a successful businessman doesn't give you more scientific authority. And of course, as usual, he was found out and ended up looking even sillier than he did already.

In Malcolm's case I believe he may actually have genuine mental problems, but he is by no means unsual. There are many people all over the place who pretend to have a maths degree and then fail to manage 2+2, or pretend to have an English degree while writing with the spelling and grammar of a dyslexic wombat. Why do people feel the need to make up things for no apparent reason?

To clarify, I'm not asking about people who are deluded and think they are telling the truth, or those who just happen to have come to different conclusions, I am asking specifically about people who know they are lying and do so anyway. Does anyone have thoughts on this?
 
Cuddles said:
"Santa Claus doesn't exist" are technically lies, but just aren't anything to worry about.
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You mean I didn't really have to drink/eat the milk and cookies or put the presents out myself? Damn (except for the cookies part).

Linda
 
I think the answer to number three is that they expect to be believed and thereby impress others. And while they know the impressive characteristics aren't true, they do represent the level to which you should be impressed, if you could only realize just how fabulous they truly are. The claim of the credential is just a substitute for something real. That's what the delusion tells them.

Or they haven't come up against people who are capable of calling them out, before. Most places you're more likely to be talking to people who are also pretending to be college professors, rather than the real college professors you encounter here.

Linda
 
Cuddles said:
<snip> while writing with the spelling and grammar of a dyslexic wombat. <snip>
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Now wait just a min., you promised you'd never tell anyone about me! Oh wait....er....umm...it's ok, I am a tabmow cixelsyd :)

Joking aside, I've often wondered the same thing...what seperates the scam artist (say the 411'ers for example) from the truly delusional.

At times, I think there are obvious mental issues…. However, I still don’t think that explains it all.

Take Rosie O’Donnell for example (yeah, I know…just work with me here); overlooking various aspects for a moment, she is someone who is 100% convinced that it was a Government conspiracy behind 9/11. Why? I don’t think she is delusional (at least in this case), but rather blinded by a genuine hatred and distrust of the current Administration, perhaps the entire Government.

No matter what proof is offered, no matter WHO provides it…she will NEVER accept anything other then the Government conspiracy theory behind 9/11.

I think that, being blinded, by some other priority/belief, plays into the whole lying thing.

The hard-core believers in “woo woo”, “Bigfooters”, the crop-circle crowd, etc. all share this one thing in coming….this blinding belief in something, that alters how they interpret data/information, and how they explain the world around them.
 
Cuddles said:
However, he then went on to make various claims about himself, including being rich enough to buy all our houses out from under us. Why? Being rich doesn't make your arguments any more right. Being a successful businessman doesn't give you more scientific authority. And of course, as usual, he was found out and ended up looking even sillier than he did already.
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What evidence do you have that people like him know that being rich doesn't make one's arguments better? Logic is hard. The clear majority of people have had no formal training in how to avoid logical fallacies. I suspect that through their own experiences these folks have come to the conclusion that either a) people with good credentials win more arguments and therefore lying, while being something that is wrong, is still the easiest way to win arguments or b) people who make stuff up win more arguments and therefore lying is not wrong - it is simply a tool to win arguments.
 
The Condemned Man's Choice

The condemned man is told by his captors that he will be given a choice on how he is executed. He is told that he must make a statement. If the statement is true, he will be hung. If the statement is false, he will be shot. So he says, "I will be shot."
 
Because they're Christians? :jaw-dropp

Seriously, though, I think people want to be seen a certain way, and they will lie if that's what it takes. What it rests on, though, is a need to see themselves as superior, or powerful, or whatever. On some level, I suspect that those people are almost convinced of their lies, at least while they are lying, and it makes them feel better about themselves.
 
JoeEllison said:
Because they're Christians? :jaw-dropp

Seriously, though, I think people want to be seen a certain way, and they will lie if that's what it takes. What it rests on, though, is a need to see themselves as superior, or powerful, or whatever. On some level, I suspect that those people are almost convinced of their lies, at least while they are lying, and it makes them feel better about themselves.
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Oh, I agree with the "power trip" thing...lots of folks do that, say those claiming to have earned a CMH and are found to never have served.
 
Locknar said:
Oh, I agree with the "power trip" thing...lots of folks do that, say those claiming to have earned a CMH and are found to never have served.
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And the thing is, no one else really cares that much. It is all serving the ego of these folks. Self-aggrandizement doesn't even really seem to be about other people except in a roundabout way.
 
Locknar said:
True; as in the CMH cases it is more about trying to feel better about themselves.
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I think this is probably the case. However, this raises the obvious question of why does making up things make people feel better about themselves? I guess I just have trouble understanding how saying "Look at me, aren't I great because I've done X." can make people feel anything at all when they know full well that they haven't actually done X.

On the other hand, I suppose it's similar to cheating at Patience or a self-test for dowsing or whatever. There's absolutely no point and you're not cheating any but yourself, and yet many people still do so anyway. When it comes down to it, I think I'm glad I'm not a psychologist.

fls said:
You mean I didn't really have to drink/eat the milk and cookies or put the presents out myself? Damn (except for the cookies part).

Linda
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Milk? What kind of Santa is that? When he visted he us accepted nothing less than sherry.
 
Cuddles said:
I think this is probably the case. However, this raises the obvious question of why does making up things make people feel better about themselves? I guess I just have trouble understanding how saying "Look at me, aren't I great because I've done X." can make people feel anything at all when they know full well that they haven't actually done X.
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I don't know...I would think it would have the opposite effect, that is making them feel worse about themselves vs better. But....as in the CMH frauds, they seem to get caught up in the "look at me" part. Of course, it all comes crashing down when they are found out - and they always are.

At least these folks, for example, seem to have some plausible mental reason; ie. depression, low self esteem, etc.

Others, like Rosie & her blind hatred…I simply don’t get. At what point do they turn off the reality switch?

Edit: I'm not Rosie bashing btw; though I'm certianly NO fan of hers, I use her as an example simply because she has been very visable in the whole 9/11 conspiracy thing.
 
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Locknar said:
I don't know...I would think it would have the opposite effect, that is making them feel worse about themselves vs better. But....as in the CMH frauds, they seem to get caught up in the "look at me" part. Of course, it all comes crashing down when they are found out - and they always are.

At least these folks, for example, seem to have some plausible mental reason; ie. depression, low self esteem, etc.

Others, like Rosie & her blind hatred…I simply don’t get. At what point do they turn off the reality switch?
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I think that lying gives them an immediate high, followed by a time of feeling worse about themselves... which encourages them to lie again. Thanks to the law of diminishing returns, the lies get larger and more frequent over time.
 
people who make up stuff for no reason are probably just amusing themselves, or trying to mess with someone.
 
I think a large number of people make up stories just for the laughs. I don't really understand why it's funny but apparently it is. If I make a long, involved post about myself, how are you all to know whether I'm telling the truth or simply making it up? Yet having people respond seriously to my post is supposed to be funny. Here's how it works:

Apology: I am a Catholic Priest and I perform exorcisms all the time. (lie)
User1: Please tell me more about the tools you use to perform exorcisms.
Apology: (thinking) Hahaha you're an idiot, I'm not a priest, lol what a thigh-slapper.

I honestly don't find it terribly funny, because how is another anonymous internet user supposed to know I'm not what I claim to be? It's human nature to assume that what someone tells you about themselves is true until proven otherwise. However, there are plenty of people who do find it funny for whatever reason, and they do it all the time. Any message board is subject to this type of lying.
 
I think there may also be a fourth category - The Ends Justify The Means. Consider the CT guys as an example. This arises out of their fundamental beliefs, part of which is, "Everyone who disagrees with us is a paid shill". If they believe their opponents are lying, they may lie in return to "level the playing field." If they don't get caught, they're one up, and if they do get caught, they're just back where they started - with no one believing a word they say.

When you consider what they actually profess to believe - that they are working against a vast, evil plot to enslave humanity, say - a few lies here and there really don't look all that bad. Once they've rationalized those first few lies, the rest follow along in an attempt to shore up their failing narrative.
 
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