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Who is a progressive and who is a centrist?

Travis

Misanthrope of the Mountains
Travis
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
24,133
So, I'll be honest. If comments on social media are anything to go by I don't think anyone has any idea who is and who isn't a centrist, neoliberal, progressive or a democratic socialist.


How is Kamala "basically a Republican" but Tulsi is a "progressive?"


What are the key positions one must take to be sorted into one group or another? Is it possible that people are just throwing around buzzwords? How many of these people actually live in Russia?
 
Travis said:
So, I'll be honest. If comments on social media are anything to go by I don't think anyone has any idea who is and who isn't a centrist, neoliberal, progressive or a democratic socialist.
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Centrist: Evan Bayh
Neoliberal: Bill Clinton
Progressive: Elizabeth Warren
Democratic Socialist: Bernie Sanders.

How is Kamala "basically a Republican" but Tulsi is a "progressive?"
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You actually found people talking about Tulsi Gabbard?

What are the key positions one must take to be sorted into one group or another? Is it possible that people are just throwing around buzzwords? How many of these people actually live in Russia?
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I hear Kamala was born there.
 
Sanders isn't a "democratic socialist". Neither is AOC.

Those were labels tacked onto them by fans or tenuous self-proclamations at one point long ago and hardly ever brought up by them again.

Nothing they propose is much different from old school 20th century American progressives.
 
Venom said:
Sanders isn't a "democratic socialist". Neither is AOC.

Those were labels tacked onto them by fans or tenuous self-proclamations at one point long ago and hardly ever brought up by them again.

Nothing they propose is much different from old school 20th century American progressives.
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Exactly. They are euro-style social democrats at best.

It just amazes me that so many USAians seem to believe that the definition of socialism is pretty much "anything slightly to the left of me that I disagree with".

It's like words don't actually mean anything anymore. Post modern conservatism.
 
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Venom said:
Sanders isn't a "democratic socialist". Neither is AOC.

Those were labels tacked onto them by fans or tenuous self-proclamations at one point long ago and hardly ever brought up by them again.
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Err, AOC belongs to the Democratic Socialists of America.
 
Venom said:
Sanders isn't a "democratic socialist". Neither is AOC.

Those were labels tacked onto them by fans or tenuous self-proclamations at one point long ago and hardly ever brought up by them again.

Nothing they propose is much different from old school 20th century American progressives.
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I'm pretty sure the Democratic Socialist label was one Sanders gave himself and has kept.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Lambchops said:
Exactly. They are euro-style social democrats at best.

It just amazes me that so many USAians seem to believe that the definition of socialism is pretty much "anything slightly to the left of me that I disagree with".

It's like words don't actually mean anything anymore. Post modern conservatism.
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This is so true and the Democrats do a poor job of labeling themselves. Sanders tosses around 'socialism' like it's a selling point. It isn't. Rather it's terrible framing.
 
Brainster said:
Err, AOC belongs to the Democratic Socialists of America.
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Ocasio-Cortez supports Medicare-for-all and a single-payer health care system, tuition-free college for all, banning private prisons, and most notable, abolishing the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.
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Which, for these goals, brings her in line with most of the rest of the civilised world. Including the Socialist Republics of Australia, Canada and the UK. It is true we have a gulag system for immigrants in Aus. Just that is being pushed by our non-socialist centre-right government currently.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Which, for these goals, brings her in line with most of the rest of the civilised world. Including the Socialist Republics of Australia, Canada and the UK. It is true we have a gulag system for immigrants in Aus. Just that is being pushed by our non-socialist centre-right government currently.
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That's what I mean about framing, Democratic Socialists might sound wonderful to that base, but it's an unnecessary label doing more harm than good.

We're doomed to 4 more years of Trump if we don't sort this out in the primary.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Which, for these goals, brings her in line with most of the rest of the civilised world. Including the Socialist Republics of Australia, Canada and the UK. It is true we have a gulag system for immigrants in Aus. Just that is being pushed by our non-socialist centre-right government currently.
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Are you saying tuition is free in Australia and have single payer, or did you mean something else?
 
Why can't you be a Progressive Centrist?

Of course doing so in the US makes you left of 90% of the population.
 
Travis said:
So, I'll be honest. If comments on social media are anything to go by I don't think anyone has any idea who is and who isn't a centrist, neoliberal, progressive or a democratic socialist.


How is Kamala "basically a Republican" but Tulsi is a "progressive?"


What are the key positions one must take to be sorted into one group or another? Is it possible that people are just throwing around buzzwords? How many of these people actually live in Russia?
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Labels seem to be bad in my opinion.
Ask the person themselves whether they want to labelled as being in one group or another, comments on social media are just other peoples attempts to label someone.
It's Tribal **** once again, just be yourself.
 
Okay, so is the consensus here that no one running is actually a socialist of any stripe?


Then who is and who isn't a progressive? Who is a neoliberal?
 
The whole concept of centrism rests on the flawed principle that good ideas lie midway between two bad ideas

Sent from my Moto C using Tapatalk
 
Travis said:
Okay, so is the consensus here that no one running is actually a socialist of any stripe?
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No. The consensus is that social media is a toxic dump and you shouldn't look to it for information about anything.

And Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist. I'm OK with taking him at his word.
 
Ziggurat said:
No. The consensus is that social media is a toxic dump and you shouldn't look to it for information about anything.

And Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist. I'm OK with taking him at his word.
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No, Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist. The difference is huge.
 
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