Who Are Iraq's Terrorists?

[BPSCG]

Home-grown? Perhaps not:

The Global Research in International Affairs Center in Israel, a highly reputable and reliable think-tank, has published a paper titled "Arab volunteers killed in Iraq: an Analysis," available at e-prism.org. Authored by Dr. Reuven Paz, the paper analyzes the origins of 154 Arab jihadists killed in Iraq in the last six months, whose names have been posted on Islamist websites.

The sample does not account for all jihadists in Iraq, but provides a useful and eye-opening profile of them. Saudi Arabia accounted for 94 jihadists, or 61 percent of the sample, followed by Syria with 16 (10 percent), Iraq itself with only 13 (8 percent), and Kuwait with 11 (7 percent.) The rest included small numbers from Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Algeria, Morocco (of which one was a resident in Spain), Yemen, Tunisia, the Palestinian territories (only 1), Dubai, and Sudan. The Sudanese was living in Saudi Arabia before he went to die in Iraq.

Link.

 

[Cleon]

Ah, yes, the Weekly Standard. I'm sure next they'll be informing us of the Islamic-Communist link.

On a serious note, though, the article is rather strikingly short and doesn't have much details.

For example, it doesn't explain who they define as "jihadis," though they mention Al-Zarqawi's group. It doesn't break down the forces involved in fighting US troops; for example, Al-Zarqawi's group is actually fairly small and relatively insignificant compared to, say, the forces around Muqtada al-Sadr, or the Sunni fighters. The "PRISM" site, which the article links to, doesn't have the text of the study (that I could find), so I can't see the original. (Though the site is rather poorly put together--I hope that isn't an indication of their methodology.)

 

[Kerberos]

Home-grown? Perhaps not:
Link.

I don't see anything in the link that's relevant to whether the Iraqi terrorists are home grown or not. It's about where the foreign insurgents are from not where insurgents in general are from. I don't see any data on how large a percentage of the insurgents are foreigners. I really don't see where you get from 61% of all foreign insurgents are Saudi to your implication that the insurgency isn't homegrown. The only thing that your link shows that's inb any way relevant is that there are foreign insurgents, and I don't think that was ever in doubt.

 

[BPSCG]

Ah, yes, the Weekly Standard. I'm sure next they'll be informing us of the Islamic-Communist link.

Translation: "I don't like the messenger, so I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears."

On a serious note, though, the article is rather strikingly short and doesn't have much details.

Agreed, and the nature of the insurrection makes it difficult to know much with any certainty, and info gets outdated fairly quickly. Here's an article that relates what was known in August, 2003; note how Muhammad Zarqawi's name doesn't show up.

In any case, though, the article in the OP does support the claim that many of the insurrectionists come from outside the country. It is certainly not the last word, but it is also certainly something we should be looking at. If most of the insurrectionists are coming from Saudi Arabia, and not Syria (as I had thought), then maybe we need to redirect some of our attention?

 

[BPSCG]

Re: Re: Who Are Iraq's Terrorists?

I don't see anything in the link that's relevant to whether the Iraqi terrorists are home grown or not. It's about where the foreign insurgents are from not where insurgents in general are from.

I beg to differ:

The sample does not account for all jihadists in Iraq, but provides a useful and eye-opening profile of them. Saudi Arabia accounted for 94 jihadists, or 61 percent of the sample, followed by Syria with 16 (10 percent), Iraq itself with only 13 (8 percent), and Kuwait with 11 (7 percent.) The rest included small numbers from...

Emphases mine.

I have to assume that the coalition forces aren't making a special effort to kill Saudis and avoid killing Iraqis. So why are so many Saudis getting killed compared to the numbers of Iraqis?

 

[Cleon]

Translation: "I don't like the messenger, so I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears."

No, it was a joke, which I followed up with some valid criticisms of the article in question.

Agreed, and the nature of the insurrection makes it difficult to know much with any certainty, and info gets outdated fairly quickly. Here's an article that relates what was known in August, 2003; note how Muhammad Zarqawi's name doesn't show up.

In any case, though, the article in the OP does support the claim that many of the insurrectionists come from outside the country. It is certainly not the last word, but it is also certainly something we should be looking at. If most of the insurrectionists are coming from Saudi Arabia, and not Syria (as I had thought), then maybe we need to redirect some of our attention?

That depends, again, on how you define "insurrectionists" and which group you are analyzing. There are a number of different forces involved here; the article doesn't differentiate between them, or say who exactly (in terms of affiliation) the study discusses beyond "jihadists."

My gut feeling is that the study and article limited themselves to Al-Zarqawi's group--which makes sense to me, as I don't think Al-Zarqawi has much support from Iraqis themselves.

The problem with that, though, is that Al-Zarqawi makes up a very small part of the insurrection forces. It's high-profile, thanks to the beheadings and his connection to the Al-Qaeda network, but fundamentally if this is what the study's about the conclusions are quite flawed.

All in all, this is a short, not-very-detailed article about a study that may or may not be incredibly flawed.

 

[Kerberos]

Re: Re: Re: Who Are Iraq's Terrorists?

I beg to differ:Emphases mine.

I have to assume that the coalition forces aren't making a special effort to kill Saudis and avoid killing Iraqis. So why are so many Saudis getting killed compared to the numbers of Iraqis?

Damn, I missed that, I'll slink off and hide in a corner.

 

[demon]

The Global Research in International Affairs Center in Israel, a highly reputable and reliable think-tank, has not published a paper titled "US merceneries killed in Iraq"

Oh go on, lets talk about foreigners in Iraq ...