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What makes a man...

Better still:
What Is a Man? | Renegade Cut (Nov. 10. 2019)

 
I've thought about this. some more. I don't think there are any character traits that are sexy in men that are not also sexy in women. The new, more modern, pop culture feminine sex symbols emphasize the same traits that are found in men. Things like assertiveness, confidence, competitiveness.

However, that doesn't mean they are equally common in men and women, and they certainly aren't expressed in the same way.

Also, there are an awful lot of traits that can be expressed by men in ways that are generally viewed as admirable, or that are generally viewed negatively. Take competitiveness for instance. If a man gives his all, always puts forth a maximum effort, shows perserverance through difficulties, whether in serious situations (wars, life threatening situations, really important stuff), or in games and sports. I think people admire those things in either men or women, but expect them more from men. On the other hand, some men have more of a "win at all costs" attitude, or they get visibly agitated when losing, show aggression, complain, yell at people. Those are all associated with being competititve, and also with being a jerk.

Some of the same things can be said about women, but there is one major difference. It will be said that our society doesn't value those traits in women. Women aren't supposed to be competitive, and they are looked down on if they are. That's sort of true. What I think is actually the case, though, is that women who are good at things threaten weak willed men. Until recently, our society would have encouraged women to back off and above all never, ever, defeat a man, at anything. There was fear that men wouldn't like it, and as a result wouldn't marry the woman. Today, I think there's a whole lot less of that. There are still men who are threatened by strong women, but I think more women are likely to say, "Who cares?" and look for a guy that is sufficiently confident that he doesn't feel threatened by people, especially women, who are better than them at, anything.
 
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Meadmaker said:
I've thought about this. some more. I don't think there are any character traits that are sexy in men that are not also sexy in women. The new, more modern, pop culture feminine sex symbols emphasize the same traits that are found in men. Things like assertiveness, confidence, competitiveness.

However, that doesn't mean they are equally common in men and women, and they certainly aren't expressed in the same way.

Also, there are an awful lot of traits that can be expressed by men in ways that are generally viewed as admirable, or that are generally viewed negatively. Take competitiveness for instance. If a man gives his all, always puts forth a maximum effort, shows perserverance through difficulties, whether in serious situations (wars, life threatening situations, really important stuff), or in games and sports. I think people admire those things in either men or women, but expect them more from men. On the other hand, some men have more of a "win at all costs" attitude, or they get visibly agitated when losing, show aggression, complain, yell at people. Those are all associated with being competititve, and also with being a jerk. Some of the same things can be said about women, but there is one major difference. It will be said that our society doesn't value those traits in women. Women aren't supposed to be competitive, and they are looked down on if they are. That's sort of true. What I think is actually the case, though, is that women who are good at things threaten weak willed men. Until recently, our society would have encouraged women to back off and above all never, ever, defeat a man, at anything. There was fear that men wouldn't like it, and as a result wouldn't marry the woman. Today, I think there's a whole lot less of that. There are still men who are threatened by strong women, but I think more women are likely to say, "Who cares?" and look for a guy that is sufficiently confident that he doesn't feel threatened by people, especially women, who are better than them at, anything.
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They don't value them in dudes either.

It is called being an ********

:confused:
 
TragicMonkey said:
I think all humans are inherently prone to all human traits and behaviors, but cultures define and enforce which behaviors are allowed by whom. When I'm aggressive it's allowed because I'm male and males are cultural permitted to be forceful. When a woman is aggressive she's a bitch because forcefulness is culturally reserved to males.
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I think this is a new age mythology not fact.

Culture creates the roles and tries to suppress any behavior that doesn't fit. When an individual doesn't accept the roles or can't be placed in one then they get everything from being frowned at to being lynched by mobs.
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Men and women really are different and they react to the same stimuli differently.If you look at court sentences. Men get greater sentences for violent crimes than women do which is counter to what you say. It's a myth that society punishes women for stepping out of their traditional roles. At this point in time, it's a convenient myth. Men should be punished more for violence because, in general, they have a greater capacity to inflict harm.

The whole idea that society is to blame for gender roles isn't supported by evidence. When left to their own devices men and women separate along gender lines. Society is set up in such a way that it takes advantage of, and in the end reinforces, them.

Most of the claims about gender roles are a chicken and egg thing. Which came first, the behaviour or the role in society that behaviour fits into. The fact that men and women tend to separate along those lines naturally indicates to me that the behaviour came first and the role is merely a result. I think that is the reason gender equality as measured today has failed. There really wasn't much gender inequality to start with when measured by what the two genders held as important. Both genders had equality of opportunity but the myth espoused equality of outcomes. Given equal opportunities, but different goals, outcomes will always be different. You see that within genders so of course you will see it between genders.
 
cullennz said:
They don't value them in dudes either.

It is called being an ********

:confused:
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I understand your confusion. I wasn't being clear about my references. Let me try again.

In men, there are certain traits, such as competitiveness, that are valued. On the other hand, it is often said that those same traits are not valued in women.

In reality, I think they are valued in both men and women, if the people involved aren't being jerks. However, weak willed men are sometimes threatened by strong women. In ages past, society played to that and encouraged women to not do the things that threatened the men. Some of that still lingers, but it is far, far less than it used to be.
 
qayak said:
Men and women really are different and they react to the same stimuli differently.
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People are different and they react to the same stimuli differently. Some people are good at math, for instance (and for whatever reason), others aren't. And at least in this field, in spite of all preconceived notions that male brains are just better suited for math than female brains, it doesn't actually seem to be the case:

dann said:
"It's not just that boys and girls are using the maths network in the same ways but that similarities were evident across the entire brain," says psychologist Alyssa Kersey, from the University of Chicago.

"This is an important reminder that humans are more similar to each other than we are different."
https://www.sciencealert.com/there-s-no-difference-between-boys-and-girls-brains-when-it-comes-to-mathsBrain Scans Confirm There's No Difference Between Boy And Girl Brains Doing Math (ScienceAlert, Nov. 15, 2019)
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Gender similarities in the brain during mathematics development (Nature: Science of Learning, Nov. 8, 2019)
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Most of these are not especially admirable or noble character traits, but they could meaningfully contribute to a male's reproductive success. A lot of these same qualities could prove detrimental to a female's biological fitness. That's why they're gendered. Achievement, for example, is good irrespective of sex, but it's more critical for males than females, especially if we're talking about heterosexuals.

Stoicism, particularly an unflappableness in times of duress, is a trait that can comfort frightened humans. Outside of dicey situations, it can promote a mysteriousness that women squawk about in small groups. In other words, it's sexy. A stoic woman is not as sexy to males; she should smile more. A man who telegraphs all of his feelings is not as interesting and therefore unworthy of endless study ("overthinking"), specifically in the courtship phase. Of course "excessive stoicism" is bad, but so is "excessive"-anything -- by definition. And so on for most of these other traits.

Kindness and integrity are noble qualities, and they matter for reproductive fitness, but people can fake them. It's more difficult to fake being tall. When it's all said and done, women generally prefer a good, strong man. However, they'll often take a bad, strong one.
 
dann said:
People are different and they react to the same stimuli differently.
Click to expand...

I did say that. And there are differences in reactions along gender lines.


Some people are good at math, for instance (and for whatever reason), others aren't. And at least in this field, in spite of all preconceived notions that male brains are just better suited for math than female brains, it doesn't actually seem to be the case:
Click to expand...

The difference shows up in the distribution curves. More men at the extreme upper and lower ends of ability. It's the same with aggression. Women can be aggressive but there are far more males at the top end of the aggression curve and far more females at the bottom.

Men and women also react differently to fear. Scare a male and you are more likely to get a punch in the face than you are with a woman. You are also more likely to get tears when you scare a woman than when you scare a man.

Many diseases also occur along gender lines.

This in no way means equality isn't a good thing. We just have to decide what we mean by "equality between the sexes."
 
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