What Liberals Want

[Mark]

One of the things that has confused me the most over the last few years is Republican loyalty; it seems that no matter what happens---massive federal deficits, thousands of dead soldiers, tens of thousands of dead civilians, fiscal corruption---they just continue to totally support their party. I have never understood that.

Until last night.

I was at a party with a group of very nice, quite intelligent people. All Republicans. At one point, calmly, and without any dissent whatsoever, they began discussing the definition of "liberal." They said liberals want to make sure no one has any more money than anyone else, ever; liberals want to dismantle the family; liberals will place every single person in the country on welfare so that no one has to work; outlaw Christianity and make either Islam or atheism the official State religion; and liberals want to get all of our children on drugs so they are even more dependent on the federal government.

They said this stuff so calmly and confidently! Like they were announcing the sky was blue or something. I asked where they got this stuff and they all looked at me like I was crazy. Eventually it came out that most of it is "information" they get from church and their pastors...much like the Arab world and the whacky Mullahs. Well, plus they listen to and believe every word from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

Staggering. But at least now I understand Republican loyalty; they really, honestly believe this stuff! And they are terrified. I have no idea how to counter it. How do you argue with "God?"

 

[Freakshow]

One of the things that has confused me the most over the last few years is Republican loyalty; it seems that no matter what happens---massive federal deficits, thousands of dead soldiers, tens of thousands of dead civilians, fiscal corruption---they just continue to totally support their party. I have never understood that.

Until last night.

I was at a party with a group of very nice, quite intelligent people. All Republicans. At one point, calmly, and without any dissent whatsoever, they began discussing the definition of "liberal." They said liberals want to make sure no one has any more money than anyone else, ever; liberals want to dismantle the family; liberals will place every single person in the country on welfare so that no one has to work; outlaw Christianity and make either Islam or atheism the official State religion; and liberals want to get all of our children on drugs so they are even more dependent on the federal government.

They said this stuff so calmly and confidently! Like they were announcing the sky was blue or something. I asked where they got this stuff and they all looked at me like I was crazy. Eventually it came out that most of it is "information" they get from church and their pastors...much like the Arab world and the whacky Mullahs. Well, plus they listen to and believe every word from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

Staggering. But at least now I understand Republican loyalty; they really, honestly believe this stuff! And they are terrified. I have no idea how to counter it. How do you argue with "God?"

And I find the far-left saying the same kind of absurd stuff about the right. They are just different sides of the same coin.

 

[Mark]

And I find the far-left saying the same kind of absurd stuff about the right. They are just different sides of the same coin.

But these people weren't on the "far right." That's is exactly my point. They are just average, everyday folks---intelligent folks!---who have been convined of a pack of lies.

Also, I point out again, that the Republicans control all 3 branches of government...so clearly the phenomenon is not as pervasive the other way around.

 

[Freakshow]

But these people weren't on the "far right." That's is exactly my point. They are just average, everyday folks---intelligent folks!---who have been convined of a pack of lies.

I would define them are far right. If a person's views don't define whether they are left, right, far left, far right, etc...then what does?

Also, I point out again, that the Republicans control all 3 branches of government...so clearly the phenomenon is not as pervasive the other way around.

Your evidence for this? Have you looked at surveys of the US population?

 

[Mark]

I would define them are far right. If a person's views don't define whether they are left, right, far left, far right, etc...then what does?

I guess you can make that argument. I consider the people originally spewing these lies to be the Far Right. The people believing it are just folks, as far as I am concerned. Maybe that's naive of me.

Your evidence for this? Have you looked at surveys of the US population?

Are you serious? You want evidence that Republicans control all 3 branches of government? Try here:
http://www.firstgov.gov/Site_Map.shtml

 

[Freakshow]

I guess you can make that argument. I consider the people originally spewing these lies to be the Far Right. The people believing it are just folks, as far as I am concerned. Maybe that's naive of me.



Are you serious? You want evidence that Republicans control all 3 branches of government? Try here:
http://www.firstgov.gov/Site_Map.shtml

No, I meant your evidence that extreme right-wing views are "more pervasive" in the general US population than extreme left-wing views.

They might be, as far as I know. But I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other.

 

[RandFan]

But these people weren't on the "far right." That's is exactly my point. They are just average, everyday folks---intelligent folks!---who have been convined of a pack of lies.

Also, I point out again, that the Republicans control all 3 branches of government...so clearly the phenomenon is not as pervasive the other way around.

For whatever reason people like prepackaged beliefs. They don't like to order separately from the menu. The combo meal is easy and doesn't require effort. Propaganda is effective because it plays to this fact. By painting the opposition as a monster who would destroy the very fabric of society is a very effective strategy that both sides use. In times past the Democrats have wielded the sword more effectively. Currently it is the Republicans.

I work in some very liberal environments. As a professional consultant who doesn't wish to rock the boat I rarely express my opinions. I blend into the background and people simply spout their nonsense without even considering that I might not agree. The crap I hear is simply unbelievable. Many of these people honestly believe that Conservatives by and large are happy when people are poor and that they don't give a damn about the common man.

Have you noticed that every time Nancy Pelosi gets in front of the mike she states that there exists a "Republican culture of corruption"? Google Pelosi and "culture of corruption" and you get 66,700 hits.

Thats pretty damn amazing. There is a reason. You can be damn sure that her words are effective and that there are people who simply nod their heads in agreement and accept it as gospel that the Republicans are simply corrupt. No skepticism. No critical thinking. The fact that Democrats are often involved in scandal and convicted for abuse of power isn't ever considered.

 

[Mark]

No, I meant your evidence that extreme right-wing views are "more pervasive" in the general US population than extreme left-wing views.

They might be, as far as I know. But I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other.

Republicans control all 3 branches of government and look all set to continue to do so despite the complete failure of the Administration and Congress at everything.

There may be another explanation for this, but I sure don't know what it is.

 

[Perforatu]

I guess that settles whether some people will take 'hyperbole' like Ann Coulter's (or Nancy Pelosi's, for that matter) seriously...

 

[hammegk]

... the definition of "liberal." They said liberals want to make sure no one has any more money than anyone else, ever; liberals want to dismantle the family; liberals will place every single person in the country on welfare so that no one has to work; outlaw Christianity and make either Islam or atheism the official State religion; and liberals want to get all of our children on drugs so they are even more dependent on the federal government.

Sounds spot on. Which part do you disagree with, libby?

 

[DavidJames]

How do you argue with "God?"

Vote against his candidate

Seriously, there are people who think like your Republican friends describe, but you won't find any currently holding public office now or even recently (or at least very very few). I consider them the extreme left fringe. Somehow (as Freakshow, on queue. shows), the opinion of your party goers prevails. I can't explain why, but I'll offer one thought. I think liberals (at least recently) views tend to vary, among themselves, more widely then conservatives. As a result, you don't have a monolithic drumbeat of what "we" stand for compared to conservatives.

There was an article in the Denver Post recently about how 2 or 3 Republican office holders are either retiring or not getting back in the races because they don't toe the party line and consequently aren't getting the backing from their party. I could be wrong, but I don't see this on the Democratic side.

Republicans deserve a lot of credit for their ability to define Democrats and I think a lot of it stems from that unified, toe the party line, attitude. Democrats tend to have more diverse views the Republicans. This allows Republicans to exploit that difference of views by accusing Democrats of not having core values or being wishy washy on issues.

Elected representatives who change their mind as the evidence changes are viewed as weak, stubborn, dogmatic ones however, get reelected.

 

[Mark]

For whatever reason people like prepackaged beliefs. They don't like to order separately from the menu. The combo meal is easy and doesn't require effort. Propaganda is effective because it plays to this fact. By painting the opposition as a monster who would destroy the very fabric of society is a very effective strategy that both sides use. In times past the Democrats have wielded the sword more effectively. Currently it is the Republicans.

I work in some very liberal environments. As a professional consultant who doesn't wish to rock the boat I rarely express my opinions. I blend into the background and people simply spout their nonsense without even considering that I might not agree. The crap I hear is simply unbelievable. Many of these people honestly believe that Conservatives by and large are happy when people are poor and that they don't give a damn about the common man.

Have you noticed that every time Nancy Pelosi gets in front of the mike she states that there exists a "Republican culture of corruption"? Google Pelosi and "culture of corruption" and you get 66,700 hits.

Thats pretty damn amazing. There is a reason. You can be damn sure that her words are effective and that there are people who simply nod their heads in agreement and accept it as gospel that the Republicans are simply corrupt. No skepticism. No critical thinking. The fact that Democrats are often involved in scandal and convicted for abuse of power isn't ever considered.

Well, Randfan, if you read the headlines in today's papers there clearly is a Republican culture of corruption. One Party Rule does that...it would be no different if the Democrats controlled everything.

Nevertheless, I do not deny that the Far Left spews some pretty outrageous stuff as well. My only contention is that the Far Right have been far more effective at spreading their BS. Looking at the One Party Rule we now have, don't you have to concede that to be the case?

 

[Freakshow]

For whatever reason people like prepackaged beliefs. They don't like to order separately from the menu. The combo meal is easy and doesn't require effort. Propaganda is effective because it plays to this fact. By painting the opposition as a monster who would destroy the very fabric of society is a very effective strategy that both sides use. In times past the Democrats have wielded the sword more effectively. Currently it is the Republicans.

I work in some very liberal environments. As a professional consultant who doesn't wish to rock the boat I rarely express my opinions. I blend into the background and people simply spout their nonsense without even considering that I might not agree. The crap I hear is simply unbelievable. Many of these people honestly believe that Conservatives by and large are happy when people are poor and that they don't give a damn about the common man.

Have you noticed that every time Nancy Pelosi gets in front of the mike she states that there exists a "Republican culture of corruption"? Google Pelosi and "culture of corruption" and you get 66,700 hits.

Thats pretty damn amazing. There is a reason. You can be damn sure that her words are effective and that there are people who simply nod their heads in agreement and accept it as gospel that the Republicans are simply corrupt. No skepticism. No critical thinking. The fact that Democrats are often involved in scandal and convicted for abuse of power isn't ever considered.

Or the idiocy that Howard Dean spouts on a regular basis. Such as "They all behave the same. They all look the same."

Just like Mark has seen conservatives that buy into the extreme right message (I have, too), I have seen liberal that buy into the extreme left message, and actually believe stuff like the crap that dribbles out of Dean's mouth.

Both extremes are pathetically sad, in my opinion.

 

[RandFan]

Republicans control all 3 branches of government and look all set to continue to do so despite the complete failure of the Administration and Congress at everything.

"Everything"? Now you are sounding like that which you abhor. Such blanket statements are seldom the mark of critical thinking. Pelosi would be proud however.

 

[Freakshow]

Well, Randfan, if you read the headlines in today's papers there clearly is a Republican culture of corruption. One Party Rule does that...it would be no different if the Democrats controlled everything.

Nevertheless, I do not deny that the Far Left spews some pretty outrageous stuff as well. My only contention is that the Far Right have been far more effective at spreading their BS. Looking at the One Party Rule we now have, don't you have to concede that to be the case?

No. Elections are (with very rare exceptions) a choice between two people. You are making a logical leap to assume that the reason republicans are getting elected is because they have been more effective at spreading their BS. There can be many reasons for people to vote the way they do.

 

[DavidJames]

Sounds spot on. Which part do you disagree with, libby?

Another dittohead, right on cue. Show me, specifically, quotes from elected representatives and legislation that provides evidence supporting your comment.

 

[Mark]

Vote against his candidate

Seriously, there are people who think like your Republican friends describe, but you won't find any currently holding public office now or even recently (or at least very very few). I consider them the extreme left fringe. Somehow (as Freakshow, on queue. shows), the opinion of your party goers prevails. I can't explain why, but I'll offer one thought. I think liberals (at least recently) views tend to vary, among themselves, more widely then conservatives. As a result, you don't have a monolithic drumbeat of what "we" stand for compared to conservatives.

There was an article in the Denver Post recently about how 2 or 3 Republican office holders are either retiring or not getting back in the races because they don't toe the party line and consequently aren't getting the backing from their party. I could be wrong, but I don't see this on the Democratic side.

Republicans deserve a lot of credit for their ability to define Democrats and I think a lot of it stems from that unified, toe the party line, attitude. Democrats tend to have more diverse views the Republicans. This allows Republicans to exploit that difference of views by accusing Democrats of not having core values or being wishy washy on issues.

Elected representatives who change their mind as the evidence changes are viewed as weak, stubborn, dogmatic ones however, get reelected.

You make a good point. The one big difference I notice between average Republican voters and average Democrat voters is that the Democrats tend to be far more willing to question themselves and their Party.

 

[Freakshow]

You make a good point. The one big difference I notice between average Republican voters and average Democrat voters is that the Democrats tend to be far more willing to question themselves and their Party.

Evidence for this?

 

[Mark]

"Everything"? Now you are sounding like that which you abhor. Such blanket statements are seldom the mark of critical thinking. Pelosi would be proud however.

I concede that the Republicans have not succeeded in removing all the checks and balances. But if you think they haven't tried, then you are kidding yourself.

 

[Mark]

Evidence for this?

Take Bill Clinton. Democrats, by and large, did not try to deny that he lied about the bj. Bush can lie every time he opens his mouth and Republicans simply deny it is happening every time.