• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

What Gravity Is

martu

Graduate Poster
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
1,003
Yep it’s grand claim time. I have read a lot of pop science physics recently and the other day realised I was picturing 3D space in a particular way. Thinking about it more it seemed to explain how things are influence by gravity.

My explanation is below though it may contain errors, I have a picture in my head what I mean but explaining it is difficult. It’s not rigorous physics (obviously) merely a way of explaining behaviour, similar to thinking about rubber sheets and billiard balls.

So is this plausible? Does it make any sense? Have I read it (or similar) somewhere and forgotten doing so? What doesn’t it explain? I’d appreciate your comments.


The Gravity Field - here is how to think of ‘empty’ space:

Imagine a 3D Grid and at each line intersection consider a particle

Each particle repels the other equally - think of an imaginary spring between each adjacent particle which can contract and expand caused by the particles repelling each other.

Anything that has mass is too big to fit between the gaps (where the imaginary springs are) so has to push the particles out of the way. Anything small enough can move between the particles and hence has no mass.

The denser the particles the higher the gravitational force – it’s harder for the atoms, for example, to push past.

Massless Particles:

Photons, for example, travel around the gravity particles as they are small enough to do so hence no mass.

As the gravity particles get denser it makes travelling through them harder

If the particles get dense enough the photon has nowhere to go and gets ‘trapped’ – a black hole.

Scenarios/Descriptions of behaviour:

Add a mass – consider an iron sphere. The sphere influences the position of the particles or, more accurately, the atoms take up space causing the particles to shift. This creates gravity – the particles push against each other creating gravity by also pushing on the atoms.

Consider a photon getting close to the iron sphere – the denser particles are closer to the sphere (as the atoms in the sphere are taking up some space) this directs the photon towards the sphere ‘bending’ light.

Not only do atoms ‘push’ the particles but the particles also ‘push’ the atoms, this is what creates the attractive force. Consider two iron spheres near each other – there are fewer particles, and hence less force, in the area between the masses hence they get pushed together.

Consider a human jumping on Earth – as you go up you contract the particles above you but eventually you run out of energy and can’t push the particles anymore so they push\spring back and you travel back to earth.

Consider the two split experiment – a particle as it got close to the barrier would be moving towards denser particles (caused by the atoms of the barrier) increasing the potential movement off a straight line. The particle field isn’t uniform hence the particle’s position can’t be predicted as each photon could pick a different path through the particles. This explains the wave\particle duality of light, some photons, a small amount, don’t take the ‘straight’ line (for example in a 2D plane it could go over first particle, under next, over, under etc) but can get moved off it (go over first particle, over the next, over the next, under next etc).

Dark Matter is merely areas where the particles are denser than usual, they are not spread uniformly. No matter at all.
 
Last edited:
As gravity is the attraction I don’t think an example suggesting it is caused by other particles repelling helps..........

but it might just be me.


Pah no imagination some people... :) I feared this, I haven't explained it well enough, if only I could download the pictures in my head!

The particles that are repelling are only repelling each other - they do not repel atoms or photons they just get in the way of atoms and photons. But when an atom, say, pushes a particle to move it out of the way this pushes the particle closer to another particle which pushes back. This causes the attractive force - two objects near each other have fewer particles between them compared to everywhere else hence there is a greater force pushing them together or to put it another way less of a force (particles repelling each other) to keep them apart.

Does this help? Probably not....
 
Last edited:
Nope. Among a bunch of particles, all pushing on one another, a test particle doesn't accelerate by bumping into them. Bumping into things slows you down.
 
Why is it that people think they can forego the ten years of math and science courses and just skip right to theorizing about the universe?

If you don't understand exactly what it is that is know about the behavior of the universe today, you can't make any guesses about the causes of that behavior.
 
Why is it that people think they can forego the ten years of math and science courses and just skip right to theorizing about the universe?

If you don't understand exactly what it is that is know about the behavior of the universe today, you can't make any guesses about the causes of that behavior.

Nice attitude - did you miss the bit where I asked if I was right? If it made sense?

It's merely how I picture it in my mind and I was asking those who know more about it their opinion. No mathematics, no equations but the equivalent to the rubber sheet explanation for classical physics.

Thanks anyway.
 
Last edited:
Nope. Among a bunch of particles, all pushing on one another, a test particle doesn't accelerate by bumping into them. Bumping into things slows you down.

Hmm yes indeed let me think on this one, this could be the fundamental error in how I picture it.

I was thinking that acceleration being the equivalent to gravity could be explained by the fact that you have to push past more particles as you move hence they push back on you causing the same effect as the gravity of a mass.
 
Sounds interesting. Now all you have to do is to prove the existance of "a 3D Grid and at each line intersection consider a particle "
Then we can discuss this more meaningfully.
 
I was thinking that acceleration being the equivalent to gravity could be explained by
Are you saying that as acceleration is the same as gravity, acceleration can be explained by..., or that you can explain why acceleration is the same as gravity?

the fact that you have to push past more particles as you move hence they push back on you causing the same effect as the gravity of a mass.
Wouldn't that, for example, make bigger things fall more slowly than smaller things?
 
Nope. Among a bunch of particles, all pushing on one another, a test particle doesn't accelerate by bumping into them. Bumping into things slows you down.

In physics terms, acceleration is any change in velocity. Therefore, changing direction or slowing down counts as acceleration.

That's why you experience just as much force slowing down or changing direction as you do speeding up -- force is mass times acceleration.
 
Add a mass – consider an iron sphere. The sphere influences the position of the particles or, more accurately, the atoms take up space causing the particles to shift. This creates gravity – the particles push against each other creating gravity by also pushing on the atoms.

Gravity moves at the speed of light. Can your model account for this?
 
Wouldn't that, for example, make bigger things fall more slowly than smaller things?

Yes that's why it's wrong, it's the opposite. My error. A dumb one.

The density is less, there are fewer particles therefore less 'resistance'. A photon travels better through the bigger 'gaps'.
 
Black Holes are caused by particles being so far apart that there is a hole in the grid.
 
I was thinking that acceleration being the equivalent to gravity could be explained by the fact that you have to push past more particles as you move hence they push back on you causing the same effect as the gravity of a mass.

Hell's teeth that's almost timecube territory my apologies.

If you move through the grid you have to push past more partciles creating gravity.
 
Newton's third law means that these hypothetical particles need a force to stop them moving.

Your gravitational force depends only on the density of the particles and not the mass of the object. Actual gravitational force depends on the mass of both objects.

Thus this is not even bad fiction.
 

Back
Top Bottom