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What converted you ? ooo

jambo372

Graduate Poster
J
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
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If you were originally a believer but went sceptic, what persuaded you to do so ?
If you were originally sceptical but converted to beliefs, what persuaded you to do so ?

Do you advocate the same change to people in your former position ?

If so why ?

Has this change worked to your advantage ?
Why does it benefit you ?
 
I used to read lots of UFO and Bermuda triangle books but I came to realize that it’s the belief in the supernatural that has kept humanity in a prison for eons, and the way to freedom is reason and science
 
Hi

First time poster, not great with spelling as you'll see;)

I was once a believer. Suffered from Sleep disorder and used to see things, still do, and believed (because I was told by lots of psychic's) that I too had a gift (which if I'm honest was a real ego boost as I'm not too clever, didn't do well at school, so it was brill to at last be good at something). One thing lead to another and before you know it I was a tarot reader at the local psychic fairs. Was into it all, bigtime.

I supose I started 'thinking' about things and it just didn't add up. Did some research, everything I thought I was doing was, to me, easily explained from normal reasons without it being paranormal.

Must say mind you it was a terrible time when I went through the change, felt like the rug had been pulled from under my feet.


Much Love
Sharon;)
 
> If you were originally a believer but went sceptic, what persuaded you to do so ?

First, I want to point out that I am first a critical thinker and only then am consider myself a skeptic.

I was raised to believe blindly what I was taught at home and school. When I first went away from home, I met people and read more, and began questioning and trying to make the ends of reason meet, but they just didn't. About religion, I once woke to the fact that knowing or not (believing or not) doesn't make any difference, so what the heck.


> Do you advocate the same change to people in your former position ?

No. Its a matter of personal conviction (based on reason or dogma - whatever anyone decides) and any individual should be free to choose what to accept or not (FWIW, my wife is raising our children in religion, which is fine with me).


> Has this change worked to your advantage ?

For one, I got rid of the guilt of having been born in the first place! Also, at certain stage as a kid, I couldn't go to the bathroom without being shy that god was watching over me. WTF????

Later, when I was at the University, I met people into gnostics and other such thinking, and at one moment I really worried that I was among dangerous fanatics of all sorts when I read some books they offered to me. I have never met an atheist who tried to convert anyone, but these people were eager to draw me into their cause with all sort of psychodelic arguments.

I also think I am happier than before, and free to think and imagine (I make a living as an artist, so I have to "create" things). In this regard, I must mention that I have long appreciated the fact of having been once a believer - the creative possibilities of knowing both positions are endless.
 
jambo372 said:
If you were originally a believer but went sceptic, what persuaded you to do so ?
Click to expand...
Jambo, I wish I could put this into a short answer for you, but I just can't. Suffice to say that for many years, in fact my whole life up until the past year, I was a die-hard believer. I was a Witch, both Wiccan and general Pagan, and later on an atheistic occultist. After years of practicing psi and other occult practices, I saw that it got me nowhere and did nothing but waste my time, money, and energy. It did nothing but make me feel better about myself and the world, and when I saw it did nothing but that, it didn't even do that anymore.
jambo372 said:
Do you advocate the same change to people in your former position ?
Click to expand...
It depends on who they are. Some people need their beliefs to shore themselves up, to keep themselves from falling apart. I would never advocate my position to my father, for instance, because he wouldn't be able to handle it. I love him dearly, but it's true. Without God and the supernatural, I think he would kill himself.
jambo372 said:
If so why ?
Click to expand...
For those that could handle it, I see no reason not to nudge them towards skepticism. I'd never bring it up intentionally though, and I'd only debate it if the other person wanted to and started the conversation him/herself.
jambo372 said:
Has this change worked to your advantage ?
Click to expand...
Yes. I feel... free. I don't know how else to put it. Free. It's a very good feeling. Not exhilerating, but just... free.
jambo372 said:
Why does it benefit you ?
Click to expand...
Because now I can best see the world as it is, without the blinders and rose-tinted glasses. Granted, I will always have my own subjectivity to contend with, but at least now I know how to fight it.
 
Sharon said:
Hi

First time poster, not great with spelling as you'll see;)

I was once a believer. Suffered from Sleep disorder and used to see things, still do, and believed (because I was told by lots of psychic's) that I too had a gift (which if I'm honest was a real ego boost as I'm not too clever, didn't do well at school, so it was brill to at last be good at something). One thing lead to another and before you know it I was a tarot reader at the local psychic fairs. Was into it all, bigtime.

I supose I started 'thinking' about things and it just didn't add up. Did some research, everything I thought I was doing was, to me, easily explained from normal reasons without it being paranormal.

Must say mind you it was a terrible time when I went through the change, felt like the rug had been pulled from under my feet.


Much Love
Sharon;)
Click to expand...

Welcome, Sharon. Your sig. is from one of my favourite books.:) Thanks for the clear and frank exposition of your "conversion". You seem to have shared many of the traits that jambo372 displays here. Glad you "got better" :)

What made me a skeptic:

1. Basic (A Level) science education.
2. Critical thinking at Uni. Studying the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Rise of Scientific Europe etc.
3. Lack of evidence of anything paranormal.
4. Reading a lot -- on both sides.
5. Interest in the mechanics and philosophy of conjuring.
6. Learning that all psychic phenomena can be reproduced by magicians.
7. Reading about the frauds in the psi community.
8. I can usually discern how a psychic feat was performed -- i.e. by cheating.
9. If I am to be deliberately fooled, I like to be told before or after that a trick is involved. Otherwise, I would feel cheated.
10. Coming here. I came across the JREF by accident while looking up stuff on conjuring.
11. I don't want the world to revert back to the Dark Ages.
12. I believe that science deserves much more funding. PSI research is a waste of funding and mental energy.
13. I don't like seeing others being conned by charlatans.

There -- 13, my lucky number ;)
 
When I was a child, I believed in magic and fairy tales... then I grew up.

I think we should work toward helping others live in the real world and not some fantasy land... this is especially true for those who kill themselves or loved ones based on their beliefs.

Fact of the matter is Jambo, we've been looking at Psi seriously for over 200 years and there has yet to be conclusive evidence that it exists. Your posts of evidence are laughable at best.

Frankly, I blame the media, television, and movies for encouraging such beliefs. While I find such movies as The Sixth Sense to be great entertainment, we really need to spend time counterbalancing things like Ghost Hunters (on SciFi) with shows or time which looks criticially at this information.

For example, I always want to ask the Ghost Hunters what they think they are measuring when they go into a house with temperature and electrical field measuring equipment. Because, they will find such variations in ANY BUILDING THEY STUDY. (Everybody smack your foreheads in frustration)

It's about living in the Real World, Jambo. I choose to live there, it's a fasinating enough place without adding psi power, ghosts, or demons.

(Side note, when I was a kid I used to absolutely LOVE this British show about kids with Psi powers. Anybody remember The Tomorrow People ?)
 
My 'deconversion', if that is a good term, seems much different to me now that it is at a fading distance.
There is a sense of quiet freedom and calmness about it.

I was the kind of believer who would gladly travel 90 miles one way to church if called to.

A minor illness of my wife turned into a longer hospital stay in which she almost died. We later found out that this was something that could come and go for many years. Even later, there was a serious concern that the kids had inherited the health problem too. (Less concern now).

All the 'benefits' of belief were brought to bear: There were prayers for healing and visits, there was even an instance where I thought I had been visited by an angel.

And suddenly... I just broke: felt nothing, not caring to live or die. It was as if a huge elaborate sand castle suddenly washed away by an unexpected wave. I could not sing hymns for the longest time, or even enter a church without being overcome with sadness. Doubtless my leaving the faith caused many friends and family great concern. The guilt I should have felt was sort of swept away in the unfeeling.

And so that was the 'emotional' part. I don't think I ever madly raged against God or anything. It was a realization that there was no God to rage at - things happen and we go on.
For a couple years I tried to reason my way into other churches and religions but it always seemed like I was trying to rebuild that sand castle. Despite my best efforts it would last a short while and then crumble. It was not a matter of choosing to believe or not. I finally let go of trying to find a new 'faith home'.

Fast forward several years... My family is doing better although there is always a chance that it can and does suddenly change for the worse. This is just our life and we make the most of it while we can.

The 'unfeeling' gradually changed into a kind of benign detachment about things. I once feared this 'detachment' as a kind of abyss. I now have a small patch of philosophy built around it (so hey, philosophy has some use after all).
 
The Tomorrow People are the next stage of human evolution: Homo Superior. Gifted with various telepathic abilities such as telepathy, telekinesis and teleportation (jaunting), these special teenagers are also unable to kill. Sworn to defend the Earth from enemies both alien and human, the Tomorrow People operate from a secret base known as the Lab, situated in a disused London Underground tunnel, and are assisted by Tim, a sentient biotronic computer.
Click to expand...

Sheesh I'm jealous, we have such crap on tv... :D
 
This website converted me. Except for the Christian part. I went to Central Christian Academy but stopped believing in god at the age of 12 because I thought it was irrational. Belief in the other paranormal stuff that had to do with the mind and soul took much longer to die out.
 
Let's see:

I was raised "Christian", but I couldn't reconcile either the contradictions or the lack of evidence.

I thought psychics might be real, until I figured out how to do most of the same things myself, especially with a shill or two in the audience to react at the beginning of a reading or whatever.

I was impressed once by Kreskin, and then put 2 and 2 together, along with the words that "it's an act", and figured out how to do that by myself.

Then, I started on a career that involved lots of actual tests of human perception. At that point, it became obvious that human perception was highly inconstant, and not very accurate. This provided a mechanism, and in fact an obvious and painfully easily manipulated one, for making people "believe".

Then, of course, having moved from EE to audio and signal processing, the audio woo-stuff looked just like CAM magic, etc, and that was really it.

As long as people can think, non-blind testing of any sort is just not going to work.
 
Hi Thor

Thankyou for the welcome.

I haven't read the book yet, next on my list. Still working through How We Know What Isn't So. In my raggamuffin way , and they don't come much more raggamuffin than me on the intelligence front, but I'm trying my best.


Jambo

If your 'really' intrested in why people change, what made them, and the after effects then this might intrest you?

http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-05/new-age.html

It's long but it explains a real turn around in her thinking.

Sharon
 
The whole religion thing was never an issue for me - my parents didn't force anything on me and I read too much sci-fi and fantasy to believe that any other scripture would be more than another story. I did have a bout of believing the new age stuff - strange potions, angels, crystals - and just grew out of it because it seemed so silly, non-reproducible, and the people who were trying to sell the stuff were also silly, often not touching down in reality at all, and VERY hostile if questioned. If you read speculative fiction at an early age (8 and up), anytime someone can't stand being questioned about their concept, alarm bells go off. So, potions, crystals, tarot cards - bye bye!

No loss felt.

Over the years, I have become more brave at looking at spooky noises - where I used to cringe because it might be something un earthly, now I'm more likely to grab a baseball bat cause it might be something too earthly. I explore odd noises, strange lights, odd animal behavior - there is a reason, and it doesn't require a psychic to sort it out.

Edited for mis-used word.
 
jambo372 said:
If you were originally a believer but went sceptic, what persuaded you to do so ?
Click to expand...
My education in the scientific method and critical thought (or philosophy).
Do you advocate the same change to people in your former position ?

If so why ?
Click to expand...
Only if they ask questions with intent to whittle away falsehoods. I would advocate it because a systematic disciplined method of analyzing a question often works better than the alternative.
Has this change worked to your advantage ?
Why does it benefit you ?
Click to expand...
I like to think so, but I honestly don't remember what how my mind worked before. The scientific method and critical thought have been very helpful to me in life, in general, for the many situations when I've had to troubleshoot a problem.
 
I am really looking forward to Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" at TAM. From the reviews, it is touching, personal and very funny. I'll give you a report if you're interested, jambo.
 
I was raised as a protestant (congregationalist), did the whole going to church, church youth group, sang in the choir but began to really lose interest in it as a teenager. I got confirmed mainly to make my mother happy. However at that point, I still believed in god.

Then I took a high school course that was a study of different cultures with a lot of comparitive religion work. I'd always been fascinated by different cultures and loved this course. I was exposed to a whole array of different people with different beliefs. While most of the polytheistic religions got along well with other belief systems, the monotheistic ones seemed very intolerant of other beliefs. I saw religion more and more as a cultural phenomenon rather than a statement of any kind of truth. I felt that the religions that advocated that their brand of god was the right one and everyone else was wrong to be incredibly arrogant.

Between this multicultural outlook (I went on to major in Anthropology in college) and my science education, I eventually saw that there was no objective proof that any sort of higher power existed. And if I was wrong, and there was a higher power, they sure as hell weren't much concerned with the happiness and welfare of us humans.
 
I used to believe in all that stuff... Loch Ness Monster, psychic powers, ghosts, etc... I used to watch In Search Of in wide-eyed wonder. I used to find Charles Berlitz books fascinating. I used to spend hours in the back yard at night scanning the skies for UFO's...

then I grew up.
 
bluess said:
Over the years, I have become more brave at looking at spooky noises - where I used to cringe because it might be something un earthly, now I'm more likely to grab a baseball bat cause it might be something too earthly.
Click to expand...

I didn't grow up with cats, but I live with three now. There's nothing like living with cats to change your attitude on things that go bump in the night. If I used to sit bolt upright and say "what the H was that?", now I open my eyes, say "*$&%(8 cat, wonder what I'm going to have to clean up in the morning?" and go back to sleep.
 
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