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VW lies to US EPA - cheats on emissions control test

foophil

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foophil
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I didn't see a thread on this yet so figured this was the best place to put one.

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/44153...-software?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=science

It seems that VW diesel cars aren't so clean (in the US). They intentionally manipulated their vehicles to pollute (as much as 40 times higher than allowed in California), and had a cheat put in place to turn on emission controls when the vehicle detected it was going through an emissions test. Wow. That is some evil stuff there. I hope California and the EPA throw the books at them. Max fines. Full recall of all vehicles.

I imagine the EU will start looking into cars there too. I doubt VW stopped cheating at the US borders.
 
Now we know how VW got such good gas mileage and performance while meeting emissions regulations when other manufactures couldn't. :mad: There may be a whole bunch of unhappy VW diesel owners when they have the firmware updated to eliminate the cheat (the class action lawsuit may exceed the government fines).
 
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VW appears to be behind in hybrid technology so they push diesel. But apparently they can make them either efficient or clean, but not both.

I'm reminded of the 1974 (ish) valve guide seal scandal, where they changed the material of the part without changing the number or even officially revising the drawing so they could continue to deny the problem.
 
I guess we have another part of the answer to why diesel cars are rare in the USA.
 
Well, those smaller VW/Audi TDI engines do not have DEF injection. So VW was claiming to meet emissions targets without the DEF that everyone else was using.

DEF injection was added for the 2015MY.

I guess your VW TDI resale value just took a dive.
 
IIRC, part of VW's story for leaving off the DEF system was weight savings.

That's just from my memory, though.

I have to wonder why VW would take such a huge risk, though.

Makes me think there must be something we don't know regarding these vehicles and the emissions standards.

Perhaps they cannot meet them at all, except for short periods of time?

That is, they can meet the regs long enough to pass the emissions test, but not continuously.
 
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Astonishing arrogance, if it's true as reported. If so, I hope the fine will be massive.
 
From what I've heard they can meet the emissions standard at all times except, like their competitors, the MPG is lower and the 0-60 time is higher. Which of course would reduce the number of people who'd want one here in the US where medium to long distance highway driving is so common, 5 days per week for many people.
 
Car makers have been gaming the system since there was a system to game. Special blend fuel, higher pressure tires and other things are used to get the absolute maximum miles per gallon for official ratings. I'm totally not surprised someone finally got caught diddling the pollution data in their own software. It's not like Consumer Reports or the EPA is routinely going through the engine computer line by line. Well, until now. I'm totally unsurprised by this and will be equally unsurprised when other companies get caught doing it.
 
foophil said:
I didn't see a thread on this yet so figured this was the best place to put one.

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/44153...-software?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=science

It seems that VW diesel cars aren't so clean (in the US). They intentionally manipulated their vehicles to pollute (as much as 40 times higher than allowed in California), and had a cheat put in place to turn on emission controls when the vehicle detected it was going through an emissions test. Wow. That is some evil stuff there. I hope California and the EPA throw the books at them. Max fines. Full recall of all vehicles.

I imagine the EU will start looking into cars there too. I doubt VW stopped cheating at the US borders.
Click to expand...

I can tell you one thing - even though the California Air Resources Board (CARB) is about as messed up as an agency can be

http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/tran040909.pdf

They go after transgressors of the holy Ca. smog laws like preachers on sin:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/automobiles/11MODS.html?_r=0

Unless you're Larry Ellison:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...-Over-Smog-Check-on-Ellison-s-Car-3315420.php

I know other individuals who were contacted by CARB in the same investigation. They were not given the option to dictate how their vehicle(s) would be inspected.

VW is going to feel the bite.
 
Ya. VW is the first to do this in the US, and it hasn't been going on in other companies since the EPA emissions requirements at least since the late 1990s.
 
More details from the New York Times:

“When the pollution controls are functioning on these vehicles, there’s a trade-off between performance and emissions,” said Drew Kodjak, executive director of the International Council on Clean Transportation, a research group. “This is cutting corners.”

It was Mr. Kodjak’s group, in conducting research on diesel vehicles, that first noticed the discrepancy between Volkswagen’s emissions in testing laboratories and on the road. They brought the issue to the attention of the E.P.A., which conducted further tests on the cars, and ultimately discovered the use of the defeat device software.
Click to expand...
So it was an NGO that discovered the discrepancy between NOx emissions when testing vs. driving.

Under the terms of the Clean Air Act, the Justice Department could impose fines of as much as $37,500 for each recalled vehicle, for a possible total penalty of as much as $18 billion.
Click to expand...
With potential fines this high it's amazing a company would take a risk like this, I suspect some very high up engineering and management heads will roll.
 
paulhutch said:
So it was an NGO that discovered the discrepancy between NOx emissions when testing vs. driving.
Click to expand...

If I were them, I'd be like look, you've been looking the other way for decades on this. You hit us hard and we're dragging down all the US companies with us.

Just another example of the happy medium achieved between regulators and the regulatees, finding a political balance between costs and "donations" back to the politicians.

There is no place in this for interlopers like NGOs to interfere and increase the costs outside of the eye of the politicians.
 
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