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Verified by whom?

TjW

Penultimate Amazing
T
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
11,097
Unfortunately a lot of this first post is pulled out of a thread that got sent to AAH.
The portion of the thread I was interested in was sort of off-topic to that thread's designed-for-bickering OP.
Our story so far:

Ultima1 wrote, and I replied:

TjW said:
ULTIMA1 said:
Gee you guys really do not know anything do you. Lets look at some hard facts.

FACT 1. The FAA and FBI refuse to release serial numbers for parts for the 9/11 planes.

FACT 2. The FBI still has not released most of the CCTV videos from on and around the Pentagon.

FACT 3. The FBI and NTSB has not released their crime scene reports.

So you lied when you stated all evidence has been released.
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A hypothetical question for you, ULTIMA1:

If the FAA and the FBI released information containing serial numbers for parts on the 9/11 aircraft, would you accept that information as accurate?
Why or why not?

The FBI seized those CCTV videos from private owners. Do you believe it's a good thing for the government to seize information from private owners, and then release it to anyone who asks for it, if it is not being used to substantiate some portion of an investigation?
Why or why not?

If the FBI (and while I don't believe the NTSB actually does crime scene reports, let's throw them in here too, just for the hell of it.) released a crime scene report, would you accept that information as accurate?
Why or why not?
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To which Ultima1 replied
ULTIMA1 said:
TjW said:
If the FAA and the FBI released information containing serial numbers for parts on the 9/11 aircraft, would you accept that information as accurate?
Click to expand...

Yes if the infomration is verified.
<snippage by TjW>
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Now, this seems to me to be a "yes", with a qualifier that actually means "no".

Who would be acceptable to the twoof movement as verifying that information? Or, put another way, what resources does the twoof movement have that could validate or invalidate any information provided by the FBI?

Granted, this is a hypothetical question about a hypothetical report. But it doesn't seem to me there is any reason to complain about the non-release of information if the information isn't going to be accepted due to its source.
 
verified is the key. Someone like Ultima will not take the word of the FBI, so the question is who would "verify" it? David Ray Griffin? Alex Jones? lol, don't make me laugh.

TAM:)
 
We could put a stamp on it that says "Officially Verified by JBA"

That should satisfy him!
 
I again submit that it is unwise and unproductive to continue to respond to and "call out" people who have amply demonstrated that they are not amenable to reason.
 
Someone like Ultima will not take the word of the FBI,
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I'm quite sure he would bother people with Bin Laden's confessional video and the hand he uses to write in it. (But I don't want to empty my ignore list now)

The fact that OBL is left-handed is an information provided by... FBI. Who said "contradiction"?
 
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Actually, that reminds me. If Ultima truly works for the NSA, are they not a subdivision of the NWO?

Perhaps we should have some of the NWO people discuss the issue with him...lol

TAM;)
 
T.A.M. said:
Actually, that reminds me. If Ultima truly works for the NSA, are they not a subdivision of the NWO?

Perhaps we should have some of the NWO people discuss the issue with him...lol

TAM;)
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It's the ironic ending that sadly will never happen, but if he DID prove his credentials were solid he'd immediately be branded a NWO disinfo operative by the twoof movement... because in their world there's no way the NSA would let a loose-lipped agent stay alive long enough to get this on one internet forum, much less several over the course of a few years. :D
 
Gravy said:
I again submit that it is unwise and unproductive to continue to respond to and "call out" people who have amply demonstrated that they are not amenable to reason.
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Okay. I wasn't trying to call out U1, particularly, because U1 isn't the only twoofer I've seen make this same complaint. I'd accept a rationalization from any twoofer who's actually willing to give one.

It really does puzzle me, and it's a really common pattern:
Information from what is asserted to be an untrustworthy source is taken to be absolutely accurate, thus proving the untrustworthiness of the source.

We see it with the NIST reports.
We see it in the business with the Pentagon flight recorder.
I have no idea how many times I've seen the mainstream media sneered at, only to have the same person use it as a source.

It strikes me as a version of the "All Cretans are liars" paradox, but they don't seem to see it that way.
 
--------Gee you guys really do not know anything do you. Lets look at some hard facts.

FACT 1. The FAA and FBI refuse to release serial numbers for parts for the 9/11 planes.

FACT 2. The FBI still has not released most of the CCTV videos from on and around the Pentagon.---------

Ultima1, please tell us which CCTV camera images from which exact locations you would like to see released.

And, if the sereal numbers of the plane parts were released, and they fully corresponded with the planes that we are told hit the WTC, Pentagon, and PA, how do we know you and the other 9-11 Deniers wont simply claim they lied?

This is the problem with answering the questions and fulfilling the requests of paranoid individuals. They are all to likely to simply yell "liar!!....its planted!!!" if the info that comes out doesn't fit their needs.
 
As much as I flatout contest almost every single thing that U1 has EVER posted from his "evidence" to his "credentials," Gravy's right. Yet another thread devolving into "Let's all flamespray ULTIMA1." Ultimately, it works in his favor. It stirs the pot and gets people talking and angry...and gets good people suspended.

We all have our own opinions about who he may or may not be, but the fact is that the question of his identity will never be settled on this forum. Yes, he's posted documents...but those of us who were in either the military or the intel business don't accept them because from experience we know a real intel analyst would never shout to the world who he is and what he has access to. There really is nothing we can do to verify his identity short of driving to his house and knocking on his door - and that's not the job of anyone on this forum. That's up to the appropriate agencies to decide if it's worth their time.

I am as guilty as anyone else about rattling the saber with him. I've realized that it's absolutely fruitless. Just let him fester and rot in your ignore pile. That's what it's there for folks.
 
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The only reason I don't have him on ignore is because I find his fanatical postings very amusing. But you're right, all he does is stir up commotion from people (who don't know his MO) eager to prove him wrong, which has been done countless times in every forum that he infects.

I will third the ignore proposition. As much as he'll rant and rave about how we're hiding from the truth, or afraid of the truth, or afraid of waking up from a media fantasy world, or whatever else he's got in his bag, if we all put him on ignore, we'll take away the only thing he has going for him. Attention.

Take away the attention and he'll just fall back into the realm of nothingness.
 
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FACT 2. The FBI still has not released most of the CCTV videos from on and around the Pentagon.
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What amazes me is that someone that claims to work for the NSA and have done a lot of research into 9/11 doesn't know that most of the so called "84 confiscated videos" weren't taken from around the Pentagon, or for those that were, most were taken after the crash.
 
Zipster said:
The only reason I don't have him on ignore is because I find his fanatical postings very amusing. But you're right, all he does is stir up commotion from people (who don't know his MO) eager to prove him wrong, which has been done countless times in every forum that he infects.

I will third the ignore proposition. As much as he'll rant and rave about how we're hiding from the truth, or afraid of the truth, or afraid of waking up from a media fantasy world, or whatever else he's got in his bag, if we all put him on ignore, we'll take away the only thing he has going for him. Attention.

Take away the attention and he'll just fall back into the realm of nothingness.
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Well, this may be too far across the line of discussing a poster rather than his argument, but I think that there is still a shred of rationality in U1 that can be seen in the questions/points he dodges. It is worth engaging him on those points to emphasize the fact that he is well aware that his arguments aren't entirely rational. In T.A.M.'s General Discussion thread, I recently brought up two points that U1 deliberately avoided. I do not plan on creating a call-out thread for those two admittedly minor points, but if everyone can focus on forcing U1 to face the reality of what he is suggesting, rather than falling into the trap of arguing only the points he wants to address, I think it might possibly move the conversation forward. At the worst, it will demonstrate that even he cannot accept everything for which he is arguing.
 
I get what you're saying, but almost all the threads I've looked at all he has to post is one or two things and then it devolves into a huge brouhaha about whether or not he works at the NSA. You see the frequency of his posts practically quadruple when this happens. Just ignore him. I don't think he's found anyone here that supports him anyway. Don't even view his posts if it upsets you that much. Take away the attention that kicks him into overdrive.

I've notified the right people about him, and that's as far as I'm gonna take it. He can go right ahead and scream all he wants. I'm not listening anymore.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I get what you're saying, but almost all the threads I've looked at all he has to post is one or two things and then it devolves into a huge brouhaha about whether or not he works at the NSA. You see the frequency of his posts practically quadruple when this happens. Just ignore him. I don't think he's found anyone here that supports him anyway. Don't even view his posts if it upsets you that much. Take away the attention that kicks him into overdrive.

I've notified the right people about him, and that's as far as I'm gonna take it. He can go right ahead and scream all he wants. I'm not listening anymore.
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Nah, it is just as easy to ignore the NSA employment blather and focus on the more substantial points. I think if everyone did that, it would be far more effective in curtailing the screaming than anything else. I admit, I did indulge a bit in one of the earlier threads (now off to AAH), so really can't judge anyone else for doing so, but I think that point has been made and it is time to move on. For example, see ElMondoHummus' latest comments in T.A.M.'s thread.
 
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