Vampires Drive Me Batty

[thissucks]

Hello everyone, its my first post here. My interest in skepticism is starting to peak now coincidentally enough to TV, mainly the Penn and Teller show on demand. Anyway, I was wondering why the skeptical community hasn't tackled something I am very familiar with, vampires and those who claim to be them.

The problem with tackling this subculture as a whole is the fact that there are many subgroups within the community. Of course you have the gothic types who's influences obviously harken back to fiction from Stoker, Rice, and others. However, there are other groups who claim a legitimate need to take something from others, whether it is blood (from a willing donor) or psi energy.

Quite honestly, I used to consider myself a vampire, and admittedly I still feel a need to consume blood. However, I never use the vampire label on myself anymore as I am not some sort of undead corpse..I am a human..nothing more spectacular than that..I just feel the need to consume blood or I will feel sick. Also like most people in my position, I am willing to admit that I have no clue why this is the case. Within the community, wishy-washy metaphysical answers seem to be employed way too often as fact. This could be some sort of deficiency, as in my case I craved blood prior to consuming it on a regular basis (I have since stopped hoping that it will pass, its been up and down) or it could all be possibly in my head. I feel the latter explanation would actually bring more legitamacy to my need than some matter involving "psi" or anything like that. Basically anyone who feels the need to consume blood or get sick I believe wouldn't want to be in that situation and should take it more seriously than to lapse into the sexiness and mysteriousness of the crude title.

Anyway..I really rambled on...I just wanted a general grilling of the community. They need it..or perhaps I do.

Anyway..a smattering of websites..from psycho to somewhat sane.

www.vampiretemple.com
http://www.sabretooth.com/index2.html (home of Mad Mad House's Don Henrie!)
darkester.hypermart.net
www.drinkdeeplyanddream.com
sphynxcatvp.nocturna.org
www.sanguinarius.org (featured on csicop as a link, also have talked to the creator, sane in my opinion)

"Take it from me! I love you"--Pitpat

 

[Ashles]

I'm sorry, but where is the paranormal aspect?

If people want to dress up as goths and pretend to be vampires that's up to them (as long as they don't hurt anyone else).

The fact that people may crave unusual foodstuffs is not exactly rare.

And I doubt anyone here finds those people who pretend to be vampires either mysterious or sexy.
Perhaps you might find us a little bemused that those people might believe that other people would see them that way.

It's a hobby I guess, no different to dressing up in Star Trek outfits. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Rolfe]

I loved the Buffy episode ("Lie to Me", I think) where the wannabee Goth vampires came up against the real thing....

Rolfe.

 

[thissucks]

"I'm sorry, but where is the paranormal aspect?"

I believe the paranormal aspect is the popular explanation why it is so that they feel they need to consume blood, to get the "energy" that their body doesn't produce enough of. And of course you have the "psi" or "psychic" vampire who claim to drain life force, prana, chi, etc etc to satiate themselves. The latter is blatantly paranormal.

"The fact that people may crave unusual foodstuffs is not exactly rare."

Very true..usually those strange tastes are for something that they lack in their diet. Diabetics crave sugar, anemics crave to suck on pennies some times, etc. That is my guess right now for the blood taste, something that is lacking in our systems. But alas, it is a guess and not a fact.

"And I doubt anyone here finds those people who pretend to be vampires either mysterious or sexy. Perhaps you might find us a little bemused that those people might believe that other people would see them that way."

I don't personally and I never dreamed that you guys would, but many would I am quite sure. Perhaps their is a need to feel special in some sorts. However, as in many esoteric subjects, money is to be made from the gullible or uninformed buying books claiming to be fact despite a reliance on anecdotal evidence. I feel perpetuating speculation as fact does a disservice to the curious and the community as a whole.

"It's a hobby I guess, no different to dressing up in Star Trek outfits. Whatever floats your boat."

People claiming to be vampires..yes! It is a hobby and a lifestyle which makes them happy. People who feel a sincere need to consume blood? No, its a pain in the ass to most. I would love for those to be seperated for good...but unfortunately for now they seem tied together under the same banner.

"Take it from me, I love you!"--Pitpat

 

[LostAngeles]

I'm sorry, but where is the paranormal aspect?

If people want to dress up as goths and pretend to be vampires that's up to them (as long as they don't hurt anyone else).

The fact that people may crave unusual foodstuffs is not exactly rare.

And I doubt anyone here finds those people who pretend to be vampires either mysterious or sexy.
Perhaps you might find us a little bemused that those people might believe that other people would see them that way.

It's a hobby I guess, no different to dressing up in Star Trek outfits. Whatever floats your boat.

There are several types of vampires. Those who drink blood (from willing people and never a bunch) and those who are "psychic" vampires who feed off the "life force" or the energy.

See here for how to protect yourself.
Have a forum (and a pop up)
And ooh! Here's About.com

I've known about these for a while. There's role-playing a bit too heavily and then there's just stupid. Guess which one's the blood-drinkers and which one's the psychic vampires?

 

[Ashles]

I believe the paranormal aspect is the popular explanation why it is so that they feel they need to consume blood, to get the "energy" that their body doesn't produce enough of. And of course you have the "psi" or "psychic" vampire who claim to drain life force, prana, chi, etc etc to satiate themselves. The latter is blatantly paranormal.

Well vampires also traditionally can fly, can't be seen in mirrors, can turn into vapour etc....
I don't think we take vampire paranormal claims too seriously until one comes along claiming they can a) actually do this b) explain what exactly they mean by 'energy' etc.

Very true..usually those strange tastes are for something that they lack in their diet. Diabetics crave sugar, anemics crave to suck on pennies some times, etc.

Anaemics need iron - blood is a good source of this. But I doubt people who crave blood are all anaemic.
It's likely to be a psychological thing - maybe a self-esteem and 'group' issue.
There won't be anything in blood you need that you can't get elsewhere.

Have you tried seeing a psychiatrist? That's a serious question because he only reason you would continue to crave blood would be for psychological reasons. The vampire thing seems like a part of your identity you are unwilling to give up.

 

[thissucks]

"Well vampires also traditionally can fly, can't be seen in mirrors, can turn into vapour etc....
I don't think we take vampire paranormal claims too seriously until one comes along claiming they can a) actually do this b) explain what exactly they mean by 'energy' etc."

I wholeheartedly agree.

"Anaemics need iron - blood is a good source of this. But I doubt people who crave blood are all anaemic. It's likely to be a psychological thing - maybe a self-esteem and 'group' issue. There won't be anything in blood you need that you can't get elsewhere."

If it is something physical...I would love to know what it is in that blood that I can get somewhere else....perhaps a blood test would be in order...however due to fear of the unknown..I would be hesitant to tell why I feel I need a blood test.

"Have you tried seeing a psychiatrist? That's a serious question because he only reason you would continue to crave blood would be for psychological reasons. The vampire thing seems like a part of your identity you are unwilling to give up."

I have seen psychiatrists..but I have never brought it up because of once again fear of the unknown. I value my freedom and I would fear that I would be locked up in some sort of institution. If that was guaranteed not to happen..I would go right ahead and be frank with it. Psychology and psychiatry are legit sciences..however deciding what pathology is and is not in terms of mental disorders is a very sociopolitical process and the disorders seem more like medical legislation rather than objective explanations at times. For example, homosexuality was lobbied to be taken off the DSM. However, the Christian right cannot lobby to overturn the second law of thermodynamics.

"Take if from me, I love you!"--Pitpat

 

[uruk]

..I just feel the need to consume blood or I will feel sick.

Have you asked a doctor about this? Consuming large amounts of human blood (or other kinds) can cause some health problems.
(Especialy issues with the iron in the blood consumed.)
Sometimes the "feel the need" thing could be a psycological issue or something akin to addiction. Just make sure it's not a medical issue.

 

[uruk]

I have seen psychiatrists..but I have never brought it up because of once again fear of the unknown. I value my freedom and I would fear that I would be locked up in some sort of institution. If that was guaranteed not to happen..I would go right ahead and be frank with it. Psychology and psychiatry are legit sciences..however deciding what pathology is and is not in terms of medical disorders is a very sociopolitical process and the disorders seem more like medical legislation rather than objective explanations at times. For example, homosexuality was lobbied to be taken off the DSM. However, the Christian right cannot lobby to overturn the second law of thermodynamics.

I seriously doubt a psychiatrist would have you locked up for something like this. He would probably be more concered about you contracting deseases from consuming blood than being a danger to others.

 

[Ashles]

I have seen psychiatrists..but I have never brought it up because of once again fear of the unknown. I value my freedom and I would fear that I would be locked up in some sort of institution. If that was guaranteed not to happen..I would go right ahead and be frank with it.

That won't happen. If you are not a danger to yourself or others you will not be locked up. Putting people in an institution against their will is very rare and done with very good reason (eg. schizophrenia).

Psychology and psychiatry are legit sciences..however deciding what pathology is and is not in terms of mental disorders is a very sociopolitical process and the disorders seem more like medical legislation rather than objective explanations at times. For example, homosexuality was lobbied to be taken off the DSM. However, the Christian right cannot lobby to overturn the second law of thermodynamics.

I'm not quite sure what point you are making there, but a psychiatrist shouldn't really be interested in socipolitical considerations (and why would this apply to someone with a craving for blood?).
And I don't see the relevance of homosexuality to what you arer talking about.

You have a particular craving - many people see psychiatrists for exactly that reason). The fact that it is for blood isn't the important factor - it is that you have a craving in the first place.
Speak to a psychiatrist about it.
Strange cravings are a lot more common than you think.

 

[roger]

I'm not quite sure what point you are making there, but a psychiatrist shouldn't really be interested in socipolitical considerations (and why would this apply to someone with a craving for blood?).
And I don't see the relevance of homosexuality to what you arer talking about.

Just an example that not all of psychiatry is not scientific, I would assume.

But, thissucks, is this really your concern? Because if you are sceptical about the process, that is good, because it'll help you evaluate the practitioner. If, for example, they tell you that they are going to hypnotize you to find out what happened to you in a past life, well, run. If they explain that your blood craving is well understood and studied, happily provides you with references when asked, and sets about a course of action to deal with the issue, well, stick around and benefit from the expertise.

Go, talk to a trained specialist, and find out what they say. It's probably no big deal, and they'll say you can undergo treatment if it bothers you, but it's okay not to treat it if you are happy with your life. OTOH, if it's something more serious, better to find out now.

You wouldn't stay away from a doctor if you were having chest pains, would you, because there's a few doctors out there that prescribe reiki treatments, right?

 

[Sloe_Bohemian]

This would seem to be one of those rare relevant postings to me.

A new person who has been exposed to a woo lifestyle and is in stages of recovery has introduced himself and his particuliar experiences along with a form of woo that hasn't been discussed a lot before.

It's for moments like these that I think earlier discussions about how polite, or inviting, we are as a community - become important. This is the time to be encouraging and patient. I for one, really appreciate your posting here.


Here's some of the thoughts that come to mind for me:

• Relevance to the paranormal
• a belief in chi - human energy
• a belief specificly that "human energy" can be drained; or that some people depend on it
• a false understanding of biology-medicine that some people need to drink blood
• the false medical understanding about what happens when blood is consumed as a raw liquid

• Possible concerns
• blood bourne disease - I doubt the 'collection' process is monitored by qualified medical personnel. Nor is the blood likely to be stored well, etc.
• physical injury from role play that involves "monsters" who actually do cut their victims seems a possible concern to me
• a subculture believing some members are dominant superbeings (demons) who drain the life-force from willing victims might be prone to abusive relationships.... just maybe... how often are the vampires petite women who dominate large men?
• "cutting" is a common symptom of emotional problems, how far removed is the compulsion to be drained.... or the compulsion to drink blood - and this subculture does not appear to me to be likely to provide healthy psychological support for people prone to such compulsions

• How it's not a concern
• Has some strong elements of simple game play
• With proper precautions, it does not necessitate anyone being harmed

I saw that some people simply saw it as 'silly' or that since the interpretation of vampire that is common among these believers doesn't match common hollywood versions that it couldn't be worth discussing. If those were the tests for valid discussion here, then we'd never discuss the paranormal at all.


But that's just my 2cents.
In any case... I offer "welcome" to THISSUCKS

 

[Hastur]

Welcome to the forums, thissucks.

Just from a layperson's perspective, I would chime in with the people suggesting a sit down and talk with a psychiatrist about your situation. May I also suggest a nutritionist if it turns out to have physical causes?

 

[Ashles]

Sorry, I did forget to add

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[thissucks]

Hmm..I will try to answer the best I can and cover most of the bases i can (or if you aren't familiar with baseball metaphors..the entire pitch).

Anyway I have always felt that approaching some thing like I experience..something which the cause is unknown...I feel that the right order of operation is to first try to see if their is a hard, medical science explanation. If I were to go anywhere first..it would be there. If that proves to be inconslusive...I'd try the second tier social sciences, such as psychiatry. Psychology will never be a hard science since pathology can never be determined by objective measures..but that is another subject for another time.

"Go, talk to a trained specialist, and find out what they say. It's probably no big deal, and they'll say you can undergo treatment if it bothers you, but it's okay not to treat it if you are happy with your life."

I suppose at times the cure could be worse than the problem. When i get to that point..I will make the decision.


Anyway my experience was far removed from the romantic things. For me, it was an incessant hunger and craving I've had all my life which I didn't pinpoint until 18 when it was suggested to me. I tried to fine the sanest sites and go from there...but as desperate for answers i was..i got into the new age beliefs. The "psi" feeding was effective..however there are far simpler alternate explanations (the methods are much like meditation...a stress relaxer). Anyway...a couple years later..I got tired of the spooky aesthetic and lack of desire to change from my other colleagues...sometimes I would camp it up to cope...but I never liked having to consume blood...basically all I really do with a willing donor is prick their finger with a lancet and squeeze and suck until its dry. I would usually try to avoid asking for another donation until I really feel dragged down by the physical and mental symptoms of withdrawal (i tried to think of a better term as this implies addiction, but i failed)...usually six months was the most i can go for..i hope to beat that this time.

Anyway, there are a few people who think like me in my position..I wish their were more...but I would love a study which didn't involve just me. We are working on organizing something then hoping to collaborate with someone willing to work it out...but that will take years.

All in all..it was consume...feel better...deteriorate..consume..feel better...you get the idea.

As for my goal in posting this..I hope to find the root..whether physical or psychological..in terms of my issues with consuming blood. As for all the psi and energy things..that is strictly bs and I would love for that to be grilled..probably for my own gain...

..and thanks much for the welcome.

"Take it from me, I love you!"--Pitpat

 

[DeVega]

Hi thissucks - welcome to the JREF!

I have a couple of friends who suffer from Obessive Compulsive Disorder - and what you describe seems (on anecdotal account) to fit into their pattern of behaviour. If you do not consume the blood, do you suffer from intrusive thoughts?

I really do hope that you seek help if this is making you miserable. The 'cure' is not worse than the condition, there are a whole range of treatments available to you. I imagine this impacts on your life quite drastically, just imagine the feeling of freedom if you manage to leave this behind you.

I wish you all the best with it & I hope you'll keep posting on other matters as well.

DeVega

 

[Sloe_Bohemian]

I know almost nothing about this practice, so each new description is interesting to me:

*snip*

basically all I really do with a willing donor is prick their finger with a lancet and squeeze and suck until its dry. I would usually try to avoid asking for another donation until I really feel dragged down by the physical and mental symptoms of withdrawal (i tried to think of a better term as this implies addiction, but i failed)...usually six months was the most i can go for..i hope to beat that this time.

*snip*

This strikes me more as blood tasting than consuming. The tiny prick (pardon) at the end of the finger, then squeezing and sucking... it's not unlike what I might do to stop blood from flowing if I cut myself. Although squeezing the finger may seem like a logical way to "squeeze out" blood; the human circulatory system doesn't work the same way as juices in an orange. This actually describes the best way to cut off circulation a'la- turniquet.

I was also struck by the phrase "suck until it (the finger) is dry". Unless the finger is severed from the body... to drain blood until the finger were dry would require killing the host. But as I said, the method described would seem to only provide a diluted and minute sample of blood. Perhaps this is homeopathic vampirism... "it works because of the potency of being diluted".

Honestly, the description of the process seems very intimate and clearly appears to be more about the human contact than the gastrological benefits of ingesting blood. I don't know enough to even be able to suggest whether anyone should be concerned... but I would suggest meeting with a couselor or therapist, if for no other reason than to discuss whether continuing with therapy would have any benefit. *Surprisingly, few people recommend against their professional services... but still.

 

[Throg]

Hi, thissucks.

I have a degree in Psychology myself and I can understand your distrust based on the history of the science, though I could argue that looking at the history of any science would produce similar grounds for concern.

In any case, any reputable psychologist/psychiatrist would want to eliminate possible physiological origins for your craving before looking for a "purely" psychological explanation (I'm never really comfortable with the psychological/physiological dichotomy, it's very artificial). There are a number of physiological illnesses which are associated with a craving for blood, although the only one which currently springs to mind is Porphyria, a condition which is often credited as the origin of the vampire myth. It is a rare condition and it is extremely unlikely that you have it but it is a very serious, though treatable condition. Nevertheless, given that a craving for blood is quite unusual in itself, it would make good sense to discuss the matter with an M.D just to rule out the possibility of one of these diseases. As has already been said, so long as your donors are voluntary, there are no grounds for anyone to "lock you up" or make you do anything against your wishes.

Even if you decide not to explore the matter with an M.D, you might want to look up Porphyria as the physiological disease most likely to represent the origin of the vampire.

 

[thissucks]

I have much enjoyed the exchange here...thanks much.

It appears that we have a consensus on one thing...first go to a doctor to look for a possible physiological explanation..if that comes out inconclusive...try seeing a psychiatrist...a nice microcosm of what I would like to see happen with people like me..however we need to be exclusive in order for that to happen..and the internet sites (even those I think are good for the most part) are too bogged down by PC and not hurting anyones feelings. I suppose sights like that are meant to be inclusive support so a person just realizing this problem doesn't freak out. Perhaps the metaphysical explanations are good for that..but they should have some sort of caveat saying that this is basically an unproven theory based on anecdotal evidence, it is only here to provided some guidance and comfort. Anyway..although we have that consensus and we know that speculation really won't get us anywhere, its fun anyway.

In terms of OCD and Porphyria..no and no. For OCD, its much more than just mere anxiety…I feel physically ill as well and I really don’t have intrusive thoughts or any fear I see as irrational if I don’t consume blood. For Porphyria, this link would be good…

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990507.html


"This strikes me more as blood tasting than consuming. The tiny prick (pardon) at the end of the finger, then squeezing and sucking... it's not unlike what I might do to stop blood from flowing if I cut myself. Although squeezing the finger may seem like a logical way to "squeeze out" blood; the human circulatory system doesn't work the same way as juices in an orange. This actually describes the best way to cut off circulation a'la- turniquet.
I was also struck by the phrase "suck until it (the finger) is dry". Unless the finger is severed from the body... to drain blood until the finger were dry would require killing the host. But as I said, the method described would seem to only provide a diluted and minute sample of blood. Perhaps this is homeopathic vampirism... "it works because of the potency of being diluted".
Honestly, the description of the process seems very intimate and clearly appears to be more about the human contact than the gastrological benefits of ingesting blood. I don't know enough to even be able to suggest whether anyone should be concerned... but I would suggest meeting with a counselor or therapist, if for no other reason than to discuss whether continuing with therapy would have any benefit."

A very interesting response I must say. Just do get some techinicalities out of the way, it is not a continual squeeze, which would cut down circulation..its intermittent. And you could get a fair amount of blood out of pricking a finger…perhaps more than a shot glass..which is probably more than I need. Basically my conduct is done out of consideration for the donor, as they are doing a great favor for me. The whole homeopathic vampirism thing I found rather interesting…although I do find it a bit premature to consider it homeopathic…as I am sure in other cases homeopathic treatments either do nothing or possibly there is some sort of alternate and more feasible explanation behind it. The idea of it being a small dose is rather interesting…perhaps as in taking any sort of drug, whether over the counter or prescription..none of it is 100% safe, but it is far more effective when taking the proper dose and an overdose can kill or make someone sick and too little of a dose would be ineffective.
In my view of things, I myself could care less about the purported intimacy of the act of consuming another’s blood. As long as they are clean and willing I would be up to consume it if the sickly feelings are strong. It doesn’t matter whether it is a boyfriend, relative, friend, acquaintance, etc.

Of course, this is all just my experience and perspective of it all..others in my situation or who claim to be will probably tell you different things on how they approach it.

"Take it from me! I love you!"--Pitpat

 

[Throg]

I do find it a bit premature to consider it homeopathic…as I am sure in other cases homeopathic treatments either do nothing or possibly there is some sort of alternate and more feasible explanation behind it

Similarly, there are alternate and more feasible explanations behind your apparent need for blood, largely psychological ones (even if there may be a physiological disorder associated with the psychological explanation). Incidentally, I doubt you will find too many people here willing to defend a homeopathic explanation of anything and none who can do so convincingly or, indeed, logically.

The idea of it being a small dose is rather interesting…perhaps as in taking any sort of drug, whether over the counter or prescription..none of it is 100% safe, but it is far more effective when taking the proper dose and an overdose can kill or make someone sick and too little of a dose would be ineffective

The problem with this is that a small dose of blood, even as much as a shot glass, is not going to contain significant amounts of any micronutrient (vitamins, minerals) in which your body might be deficient. In terms of macronutrients (protein, carbodhydrates, fat) the amounts are still going to be pretty low compared with say, a sandwhich or a glass of milk and either of the latter is most certainly easier for the human digestive system to cope with. On the other hand, drinking relatively large amounts of blood will make you feel very unwell indeed. There is no plausible physical condition in which a human being would physically need to drink blood or where it would be even close to as good a solution as eating a good meal, even if it were any solution at all. There are, as I have suggested, physiological conditions which have an associated perceived need to drink blood but even in those cases, blood drinking is only a perceived solution not an effective actual solution.

As a thought off the top of my head, it might be worth exploring the theory that your craving reflects some sort of vitamin/mineral deficiency. Perhaps you could, for the next month or two keep a diary of your cravings for blood (will only human blood do, by the way?) then for the next couple of months take a good one-a-day vitamin/mineral supplement while keeping the diary and see if any differences emerge.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible that, as you yourself consider, blood drinking may actually be purely about intimacy in which case your need is something akin to a fetish. If this is the case then, Freudian gobbldygook aside, finding a "cause" would be much like finding the cause for a person preferring blondes, brunettes or redheads. From my own point of view, I would still want to eliminate the possibility of an underlying physiological problem before relaxing and allowing myself to enjoy my particular proclivities.