US federal judge's family attacked by MRA attorney who then killed himself

[carlitos]

We apparently don't have a current events thread on this. It is pretty shocking, as an attack on a judge is extremely rare, even given the other types of gun violence that take place in America.

Gunman attacks family of US federal judge Esther Salas [bbc.com]

The son of a US federal judge has been shot dead and her husband injured in an attack at their family home in New Jersey.

Investigators said the judge, Esther Salas, was unharmed.
..........
Sources quoted by US media said Judge Salas's 20-year-old son Daniel Anderl - a student - opened the door at the family home in North Brunswick at about 17:00 on Sunday and was fatally shot. The judge's husband, Mark Anderl, 63, was then shot several times. He is in a critical but stable condition in hospital, the New Jersey Globe reported.

Attorney who was found dead named as primary suspect in fatal shooting at federal judge's home [cnn.com]

The FBI identified Roy Den Hollander as the "primary subject," and said that he is dead, the US Attorney's office said in a statement. Den Hollander was a lawyer who once argued a case before Salas, according to court records.

Earlier, two law enforcement sources told CNN that the suspect died of what is believed to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

ETA - I'm quoting this from the CT thread - a few of the very rare attacks on judges in the US:

........


1. Federal Circuit Court Judge Richard J. Daronco was assassinated at his home in Pelham, New York on 1988, as an act of revenge by Charles Koster, the father of a disgruntled plaintiff whose sexual harassment lawsuit against her former employer had been dismissed by Daronco for lack of evidence.

2. The father-in-law of MSNBC contributor and former US Attorney, Joyce Vance, federal judge Robert S. Vance, was murdered by a mail bomb in 1989. The bomber's motive for killing Judge Vance was revenge against Vance's court, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, which had refused to expunge that conviction

3. West Texas District Count Judge John H. Wood Jr. was assassinated outside his home in San Antonio, in 1979. He was murdered by a contract killer hired by Texas drug lord Jamiel Chagra, who was awaiting trial before the judge.

Yes, the killing of judges is unusual, but it does happen!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The Atlantic has a decent summary of this sad man and his reprehensible views.

He had the full suite of bigoted outlooks that are common of the Very Online right. No surprise here, he was also a MAGA CHUD.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/judge-esther-salas-shooting-suspect-left-pro-trump-paper-trail/614425/

Den Hollander, who describes himself as a Trump volunteer in his writings, called the judge an “affirmative action” case who affiliated with those who wanted “to convince America that whites, especially white males, were barbarians, and all those of a darker skin complexion were victims.”

And on women he had a lot to say:

His voluminous writings—more than 10,000 pages of PDFs—show a deep sense of grievance against women,

 

[Mike!]

We apparently don't have a current events thread on this. It is pretty shocking, as an attack on a judge is extremely rare, even given the other types of gun violence that take place in America.

Gunman attacks family of US federal judge Esther Salas [bbc.com]



Attorney who was found dead named as primary suspect in fatal shooting at federal judge's home [cnn.com]



ETA - I'm quoting this from the CT thread - a few of the very rare attacks on judges in the US:

Said thread...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345564

In case anyone's interested in that side of this.

 

[Venom]

I'm not sure the MAGA stuff is as relevant as the likelihood that this man was a serious malignant narcissist like other murder-suiciders.

 

[theprestige]

I'm not sure the MAGA stuff is as relevant as the likelihood that this man was a serious malignant narcissist like other murder-suiciders.

"Other murder-suiciders"?

There's very little likelihood that someone who has survived into their 70s without murdering anyone and without committing suicide is another murder-suicider. The MAGA stuff is much more relevant because the MAGA stuff actually happened.

 

[carlitos]

"Other murder-suiciders"?

I would think that many people who have committed murder / suicide were held to be narcissists, yes. Stalkers, maniacs, ideologues of some sort. It's kind of the ultimate act of narcissism - look at me!

 

[carlitos]

Yikes. He apparently had the photo of another female judge with him when he died. [buzzfeednews.com]

The men’s rights activist lawyer suspected of fatally shooting the son of a federal judge on Sunday in New Jersey was found dead in a car alongside a photo of another woman judge and a piece of paper with her name typed on it, leaving authorities to probe other potential targets.

...

Den Hollander was later found dead in his car in upstate New York in an apparent suicide.
.........
New York State Chief Judge Janet M. DiFiore may also have been a target of Den Hollander's.

The FBI contacted her office Monday to inform her that her photo and name had been found in his car, but it was not clear whether he had made plans to harm her, the New York Times first reported.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Yikes. He apparently had the photo of another female judge with him when he died. [buzzfeednews.com]

From the article you linked:

Den Hollander had terminal cancer, according to his online writings, and a law enforcement official told the New York Times they were looking into whether he wanted to “take out” his enemies before he died.

A vile misogynist with nothing to lose decides to go out with a bang.

 

[theprestige]

I would think that many people who have committed murder / suicide were held to be narcissists, yes. Stalkers, maniacs, ideologues of some sort. It's kind of the ultimate act of narcissism - look at me!

Good point. Also, I completely misunderstood the post I was originally replying to. My reply makes no sense. Sorry about that.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Hollander appears to have also killed a "rival" MRA

Murder of men's rights activist linked to suspected shooter of federal judge's family, FBI confirms

Paul Elam, a friend of Angelucci and fellow men's rights activist, said he believes Den Hollander harbored a grudge against Angelucci for years because they both represented cases contesting the male-only selective service registration.
Harry Crouch, president of the National Coalition for Men, also said Den Hollander was furious that he had not been involved in the group's lawsuit against the Selective Service System in California.
He told CNN he kicked Den Hollander out of the group after he called and threatened him around December 2015.
"(Den Hollander) was upset that it wasn't his case, primarily," Crouch told CNN on the phone. "He was very upset and threatened to come to California and kick my ass."

 

[Venom]

I would think that many people who have committed murder / suicide were held to be narcissists, yes. Stalkers, maniacs, ideologues of some sort. It's kind of the ultimate act of narcissism - look at me!

That's something these types of killers appear to share.

 

[pharphis]

I'm not familiar with the relevant cases or anything like that. Terrible person committed a horrendous act (possibly several, it seems).

As someone who doesn't mind being called a male advocate, I was pretty heart-broken to learn of Marc's death nearly 2 weeks ago. One of the most successful (at enacting change), charming and caring MRAs I've heard of. It didn't make any sense, and initial suspicions were that it was a random act or a political one given his HUGE case in Mariposa county (sp?).

I was tempted to make a thread on it but didn't have the right words and it *could* still be just a random murder. Still, I felt he was an important figure to take note of given his death and his challenging of corruption as well as unequal rights.

I'm not really sure what else to say, except that despite being well aware of general MRA activities and the big hitters in the movement, I didn't recognize this "Roy" guy or his activities. Ok, I vaguely heard about suing places over "ladies nights" or whatever but didn't really think of it as a serious issue or know of his involvement with other MRAs. If we take Harry's words seriously, it sounds like he was not friendly with other MRAs.

Marc, on the other hand was a hero who did good things pro bono for about all of his working life.

Another article about the connection, below, give Cassie Jaye's perspective.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ucci-may-linked-esther-salas-case/5483731002/

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It seems to me that murdering your former colleague within the movement and also murdering a judge's only child is probably not doing much for the MRA's unsavory reputation.

 

[pharphis]

It seems to me that murdering your former colleague within the movement and also murdering a judge's only child is probably not doing much for the MRA's unsavory reputation.

It will certainly be used to say "this is what MRAs do", or that it is somehow indicative of MRAs in general (just like incel murders are blamed on MRAs as well). I think that's bound to happen any time someone in "group X" does something bad. It's happened with activist groups of all kinds, I imagine.

I think how it affects MRAs in general wasn't a concern for this guy. You can bet virtually all MRAs are not in alignment with this guy's actions, though. Mostly due to violence (as NCFM said) but especially because he killed probably the "best" MRA there was. He'll get no glory in the MRM sphere.

All of this won't change how outsiders to MRAs will perceive them and this guy's actions.

 

[pharphis]

Note: I have not read this manifesto. I think it would be a waste of time. In fact, I think I get the picture just from skimming the table of contents. Certainly seems like a whack job.

That said, I saw on reddit someone point out this paragraph from page 97 of his manifesto

Men’s Rights Movement

I don’t belong to that group of wimps and whiners. They’re trying to win back their
rights by acting like girls instead of men.

Most men’s rights advocates act like little girls and behave largely as the Feminists tell
them to. You can identify them by the politically correct lingo they use and their copying of
Feminists tactics by simply changing the sex. For example, “A woman is more likely to
physically attack a guy than vice versa.” True, but who cares, unless she’s behind the wheel of a
Mercedes Benz. Even if she has a gun, most girls can’t shoot straight anyway, so unless it’s a
shotgun, she’ll miss.
In one of my martial arts class, one Senshi always told us don’t hit the girls and I don’t. I
let them hit me, which rarely hurts, unless it’s low.
What the men’s righters don’t understand is that girls have different weapons for causing
evil, such as fraud and the intentional infliction of emotional distress

source: http://www.roydenhollander.com/main/Writings/CyclopediaUpdate2.20.19.pdf

So he doesn't self-identify as an MRA. He may have in the past, I'm not sure. He has worked with MRAs in the past (as mentioned earlier in the thread).

 

[CORed]

From the article you linked:



A vile misogynist with nothing to lose decides to go out with a bang.

Maybe we should be thankful that he only killed two people rather than grabbing an AR-15 and killing 30 or 40 random people. Well, maybe thankful isn't exactly the right word, but, as suicidal losers go, this guy was a piker. Fortunately. Or less unfortunate than it might have been.

 

[Puppycow]

Before the Media Treated Him as a Threat, They Treated Him as a Joke

Apparently this guy had made appearances in the media to be interviewed several times in the past. He was known for silly lawsuits, like suing to ban "ladies' nights" at singles bars. Another one was he wanted to ban the Women's Studies program at a university. Stephen Colbert poked fun at him, but straight news programs would also have him on from time to time. How could anyone know that he would go on to actually commit murder though?

Roy Den Hollander, now suspected of murder, was once a mini-celebrity—a figure whose misogyny was dismissed as entertainment.

 

[Puppycow]

source: http://www.roydenhollander.com/main/Writings/CyclopediaUpdate2.20.19.pdf

So he doesn't self-identify as an MRA. He may have in the past, I'm not sure. He has worked with MRAs in the past (as mentioned earlier in the thread).

I think it would be fair to call him an anti-feminist though.

 

[pharphis]

I think it would be fair to call him an anti-feminist though.

ya I don't think there's any doubt about that one.

 

[quadraginta]

I'm not familiar with the relevant cases or anything like that. Terrible person committed a horrendous act (possibly several, it seems).

As someone who doesn't mind being called a male advocate, I was pretty heart-broken to learn of Marc's death nearly 2 weeks ago. One of the most successful (at enacting change), charming and caring MRAs I've heard of. It didn't make any sense, and initial suspicions were that it was a random act or a political one given his HUGE case in Mariposa county (sp?).

I was tempted to make a thread on it but didn't have the right words and it *could* still be just a random murder. Still, I felt he was an important figure to take note of given his death and his challenging of corruption as well as unequal rights.

I'm not really sure what else to say, except that despite being well aware of general MRA activities and the big hitters in the movement, I didn't recognize this "Roy" guy or his activities. Ok, I vaguely heard about suing places over "ladies nights" or whatever but didn't really think of it as a serious issue or know of his involvement with other MRAs. If we take Harry's words seriously, it sounds like he was not friendly with other MRAs.

Marc, on the other hand was a hero who did good things pro bono for about all of his working life.

Another article about the connection, below, give Cassie Jaye's perspective.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ucci-may-linked-esther-salas-case/5483731002/

It will certainly be used to say "this is what MRAs do", or that it is somehow indicative of MRAs in general (just like incel murders are blamed on MRAs as well). I think that's bound to happen any time someone in "group X" does something bad. It's happened with activist groups of all kinds, I imagine.

I think how it affects MRAs in general wasn't a concern for this guy. You can bet virtually all MRAs are not in alignment with this guy's actions, though. Mostly due to violence (as NCFM said) but especially because he killed probably the "best" MRA there was. He'll get no glory in the MRM sphere.

All of this won't change how outsiders to MRAs will perceive them and this guy's actions.

I keep reading "MRE" with each instance of "MRA".

I suppose with sufficient repetition I'll get over that.