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Urban Legend Debunking - Word Origins

Yahweh

Philosopher
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
9,006
I got this in my mailbox today:
In the late 1700s, many houses consisted of a large room with only one chair. Commonly, a long wide board folded down from the wall, and was used for dining. The "head of the household" always sat in the chair while everyone else ate sitting on the floor. Occasionally a guest, who was usually a man, would be invited to sit in this chair during a meal. To sit in the chair meant you were important and in charge. They called the one sitting in the chair the "chair man." Today in business, we use the _expression or title "Chairman" or "Chairman of the Board."

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Personal hygiene left much room for improvement. As a result, many women and men had developed acne scars by adulthood. The women would spread bee's wax over their facial skin to smooth out their complexions. When they were speaking to each other, if a woman began to stare at another woman's face she was told, "Mind your own bee's wax." Should the woman smile, the wax would crack, hence the term "crack a smile." In addition, when they sat too close to the fire, the wax would melt . . . therefore, the _expression "losing face."

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Ladies wore corsets, which would lace up in the front. A proper and dignified woman. As in "straight laced" . . . wore a tightly tied lace.

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! Common entertainment included playing cards. However, there was a tax levied when purchasing playing cards but only applicable to the "Ace of Spades." To avoid paying the tax, people would purchase 51 cards instead.
Yet, since most games require 52 cards, these people were thought to be stupid or dumb because they weren't "playing with a full deck."

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Early politicians required feedback from the public to determine what the people considered important. Since there were no telephones, TV's or radios, the politicians sent their assistants to local taverns, pubs, and bars. They were told to "go sip some ale" and listen to people's conversations and political concerns. Many assistants were dispatched at different times. "You go sip here" and "You go sip there." The two words "go sip" were eventually combined when referring to the local opinion and, thus we have the term "gossip."

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At local taverns, pubs, and bars, people drank from pint and quart-sized containers. A bar maid's job was to keep an eye on the customers and keep the drinks coming. She had to pay close attention and remember who was drinking in "pints" and who was drinking in "quarts," hence the term "minding your "P's and Q's."

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One more: bet you didn't know this!
In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters carried iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It was necessary to keep a good supply near the cannon. However, how to prevent them from rolling about the deck? The best storage method devised was a square-based pyramid with one ball on top, re! sting on four resting on nine, which rested on sixteen. Thus, a supply of 30 cannon balls could be stacked in a small area right next to the cannon. There was only one problem...how to prevent the bottom layer from sliding or rolling from under the others. The solution was a metal plate called a "Monkey" with 16 round indentations.
However, if this plate were made of iron, the iron balls would quickly rust to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make "Brass Monkeys." Few landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than iron when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the brass indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannonballs would come right off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally, "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey." (All this time, you thought that was an improper _expression, didn't you.)
A lot of these seem like urban legends, but so far, I've only been able to confirm that one of these is actually is:

Snopes.com - Brass Monkeyshine:
Claim: "Brass monkeys" were small brass plates used to hold cannonballs on the decks of sailing ships.

Status: False.

So, skeptics, how about the rest of these? Urban legends as well?
 
"Straight-laced" should be "strait-laced", meaning "tightly-laced". And so the given reason is not far from the truth. Most of the rest look false.
 
Yahweh said:
At local taverns, pubs, and bars, people drank from pint and quart-sized containers. A bar maid's job was to keep an eye on the customers and keep the drinks coming. She had to pay close attention and remember who was drinking in "pints" and who was drinking in "quarts," hence the term "minding your "P's and Q's."

I like this explaination better:

The most convincing explanation of this idiom I've heard is that it comes from the early days of printing, when movable type was positioned for printing. This process was done upside-down - a technique not impossible to get used to after some time. However, the lowercase letters p and q were hard to distinguish, since in most designs they were mirror images of each other. Hence" mind your P's and Q's!", a phrase I was told was shouted at young children working in these print shops.

http://www.idiomsite.com/psandqs.htm
 
Common entertainment included playing cards. However, there was a tax levied when purchasing playing cards but only applicable to the "Ace of Spades." To avoid paying the tax, people would purchase 51 cards instead.
Yet, since most games require 52 cards, these people were thought to be stupid or dumb because they weren't "playing with a full deck."

Then wouldn't it mean cheap? How f'ing stupid would a taxing body have to be to say that only the ace of spades would be taxed and that the other 51 cards could be purchased tax free?
 
I don't have a citation for it, but I'm pretty sure "bee's wax" is a humorous mispronunciation of "business" in the phrase "Mind your own bee's wax."
 
Yahweh said:
So, skeptics, how about the rest of these? Urban legends as well?

If you received it via email, and the sender claims or implies that it is true, then it isn't.

If you assume every "true" story you receive is false, you will be correct 99.9% of the time. So without even doing any research, I can guarantee these are urban legends.
 
The really horrible thing is that there are lots and lots of really fascinating facts about language. But all the "did you knows" are false. Because, dammit, they somehow cease to be interesting if they're true, and no longer qualify for urban legend status.

How does this happen? Is it really the case that no piece of information can make it as an urban legend if the person passing it on gives supporting evidence? How does this work?
 
Further to the Snopes scoop on Brass Monkeys, if one was worried about your balls sliding off a brass plate, surely some sort of rim around the edge would solve the problem?
 
The entry about the origin of the word gossip seemed particularly dodgy. This is what Merriam Webster Online says about the word gossip:

Main Entry: 1gos·sip
Pronunciation: 'gä-s&p
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gossib, from Old English godsibb, from god god + sibb kinsman, from sibb related -- more at SIB
1 a dialect British : GODPARENT b : COMPANION, CRONY c : a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others
2 a : rumor or report of an intimate nature b : a chatty talk c : the subject matter of gossip

I recall a funny short story by Woody Allen in which he writes made up explanations for made up idioms. It is very funny.
 
Ref "minding your "P's and Q's"

My gran used to say "Mind your please and thankyous". I always assumed it was just an abbreviation of this.
 
I was once chewed out mightily by someone who couldn't believe I was wasting my time debunking one of these. It was the one with the "thresh hold" and "throw the baby out with the bathwater". I'm sure you've seen it, and if you haven't, I can not only post the whole thing, but also my response to it.

I came to the conclusion that people want to be deluded. People don't want the truth, they want the funny stories. They want to be ignorant and misinformed.
 
Ladewig said:
Then wouldn't it mean cheap? How f'ing stupid would a taxing body have to be to say that only the ace of spades would be taxed and that the other 51 cards could be purchased tax free?

Well, now that you ask. The feds levyed a tax against high performance sports cars. One necessary creiterion was that the car be a two seater. Porsche simply shoehorned 2 seats (about the surface area of a shoe box lid) in the back and voila! No sports car. A definition that depends on stupidity of government cannot be dismissed out of hand.
 
TheBoyPaj said:
The one that always amused me the most was "quiz". I really hope it's true.

Here's what the OED people have to say about it.
That sounds unlikely.

I always thought it had something to do with 'Quis' as 'Quis' is a perfectly good Latin question already - it asks the question 'Who?', 'What?' and 'Which?'
(As in the old schoolboy question - when somebody wanted to give a sweet away they would shout 'Quis?' and whoever shouted 'Ego' (me) first would get it).

But this explanation from Dictionary.com sounds similar to the OED one, but with the fun (and unlikely) writing on the wall bits removed:
Word History: The origins of the word quiz are as difficult to pin down as the answers to some quizzes. We can say that its first recorded sense has to do with people, not tests. The term, first recorded in 1782, meant “an odd or eccentric person.” From the noun in this sense came a verb meaning “to make sport or fun of” and “to regard mockingly.” In English dialects and probably in American English the verb quiz acquired senses relating to interrogation and questioning. This presumably occurred because quiz was associated with question, inquisitive, or perhaps the English dialect verb quiset, “to question” (probably itself short for obsolete inquisite, “to investigate”). From this new area of meaning came the noun and verb senses all too familiar to students. The second recorded instance of the noun sense occurs in the writings of no less an educator than William James, who in a December 26, 1867, letter proffers the hope that “perhaps giving ‘quizzes’ in anatomy and physiology... may help along.”
I invoke Beady's correlary to Occam's razor.
 
In the late 1700s, many houses consisted of a large room with only one chair. Commonly, a long wide board folded down from the wall, and was used for dining. The "head of the household" always sat in the chair while everyone else ate sitting on the floor. Occasionally a guest, who was usually a man, would be invited to sit in this chair during a meal. To sit in the chair meant you were important and in charge. They called the one sitting in the chair the "chair man." Today in business, we use the _expression or title "Chairman" or "Chairman of the Board."

I don't know why this stuff torques me so much but it does. To suggest that people in the late 1700's were such a-holes that at meal times, one person sat in a chair at a table and everyone else sat on the floor. Right. Benches and stools and chairs were so frickin' expensive that a family could only afford one.
 
Ladewig said:
I don't know why this stuff torques me so much but it does. To suggest that people in the late 1700's were such a-holes that at meal times, one person sat in a chair at a table and everyone else sat on the floor. Right. Benches and stools and chairs were so frickin' expensive that a family could only afford one.
Good point - like devices for keeping you suspended a foot off the ground were obviously horrendously expensive and complicated.

A single chair would no doubt cost the same as an average pig farmer earnt in a year. Buying a chair in olden times was like having a holiday I assume.

Where do people get this stuff? but worse, why do people think it sounds in any way plausible?

It's. A. Chair.

I could make one from things lying around.
They weren't exclusive luxury reserved for nobility and royalty.
 
This is the one that I received, that I was trashed for questioning. The thing that bugs me most about this is the last line.

Next time you are washing your hands and complain because the water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things used to be....

Here are some facts about the 1500s:

Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and still smelled pretty good by June.

However, they were starting to smell , so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odour.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children-last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it-hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."

Houses had thatched roofs - thick straw - piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the dogs, cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof - hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."

There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could really mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence.

The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt, hence the saying "dirt poor."

The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on the floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they kept adding more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entrance way - hence, a "thresh hold."

In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes the stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while - hence the rhyme, "peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old."

Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man "could bring home the bacon." They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and "chew the fat."

Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with a high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning and death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.

Most people did not have pewter plates, but had trenchers, a piece of wood with the middle scooped out like a bowl. Often trenchers were made from stale bread, which was so old and hard that they could be used for quite some time. Trenchers were never washed and a lot of times worms and mould got into the wood and old bread. After eating off wormy, mouldy trenchers, one would get "trench mouth."

Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or "upper crust."

Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would sometimes knock them out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up - hence the custom of holding a "wake."

England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave. When re-opening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realised they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell.

Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the "graveyard shift") to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be "saved by the bell" or was considered a "dead ringer".

And that's the truth... (and whoever said that History was boring?!)
 
I think this is my favourite:
England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave. When re-opening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realised they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell.
England is "old and small"? We ran out of burying space 500 years ago? What are we like the size of a village or something?

But special mention to:
Houses had thatched roofs - thick straw - piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the dogs, cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof - hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."
They really had to stretch for that one didn't they.
Cats and dogs slept in the roof? How?
And why did people build houses that only got warm in an area that they couldn't live in?

I agree that final line is really irritating - it adds a real claim to validity to the rubbish.

Like the old "A duck's quack doesn't echo and scientists don't know why!"

Well done for questioning this nonsense. What kind of response did you get?
 

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