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Unitarian Universalism

SherryA

Unregistered
S
I would like to know if any of you have had extensive experience with Unitarian Universalism. Although I long ago discovered I was allergic to organized religion, I've thus far found UU to be quite different.

I've been flirting with it for some time now and have found that it is a great repository for big brains, mainly scientists. I've met more scientists there (I'm talking hard science and people with degrees from prestigious universites) than I met in college.

I've been going regularly to meetings they sponsor about how to battle creationism and Intelligent Design. Unfortunately, they also host meetings where woo woo is explored, but long-time UUs tell me that these people make up only about 2 percent and don't stay around long.

Any thoughts and experiences? ---SherryA.


www.sherryaustin.com
 
I'm a Unitarian-Universalist. Yes, it is exactly what you wouldn't expect the first time.

As for the woo stuff...it's true; at a couple of our meetings, we've discussed alternative belief systems. Once, we even learned how to meditate. It's odd stuff to be sure. But the important thing is, nobody is told which is the right way and which isn't. After a meeting in which you learn about Confucianism, for instance, nobody cares if you retain or use anything from it. I personally find learning about these various belief systems to be a fine use of time that would otherwise be wasted - but even if I didn't, the newsletter lists the topic of each "sermon" for a given month, and you can decide not to show up if you don't want.

And it's not all wooic, either...once last year, we did a brief study of the music of Pete Seeger, a folk singer from the '60s. I also like the idea that although a collection "plate" is passed around once a month, the money is all donated to a local social program. Since we're something of a distance from everywhere, we only have a "minister" (from Cleveland) once a month...the rest of the services are lay-led.
 
The 2% figure sounds a little generous to me....no, make that incredibly generous.

Unless something has changed recently, UUs as a group seem to be 'universally' non-critical (some might say accepting) of Reiki, yoga, Tai Chi, crystals, midwifery, and a whole host of New Age woo-isms.

I'm not saying that is their central focus, or a doctrine, just that if I were going to go looking for a vibrational healling seminar for example, the UU church is one of the first places I would think of.
 
I don't have extensive experience with Unitarian Universalism, but I have gone to Unitarian services a few times. My experiences are inconsistent. In one service, the message was uncomplimentary, if not downright insulting, to Christians.... although it was nowhere near as contemptuous as the messages about non-believers uttered on the public airwaves by supposedly Christian ministers.

In another service, there was a strong ethical message about personal responsibility and governmental responsibility, without injection of religious doctrine. (At that service, I met a United States senator, who addressed the congregation briefly.)

At one time, a very good friend was a Unitarian. She liked this joke: "When a Christian dies, he goes to heaven. When a Unitarian dies, he goes to a class to learn about heaven."
 
Thank you for your comments, Joshua, et al. They were very helpful.

Joshua, my local fellowship has about 250 members and has had a full-time minister for the past 8 or 9 years. He is an evolutionary biologist and at nearly every service he says something about the mystery of our being and all that. I am on a UU e-list of UU-affiliated scientists. Though I'm not a scientist, they welcomed me with open arms. I discussed the problem of the paranormal lapping at the edges of UU and one of them suggested (pleaded???) that I stay involved with UU BECAUSE of it, her idea being that I could thereby help maintain the core of naturalism. Of course, this is something I'm wrestling with and all your replies are helping me with that.

If any of the forum members are contemplating writing, I hope you will consider science writing. Passionate science writing. I confess I'm on a little mission to encourage that whenever I can.

On another note, I'd like to share the following article entitled "Unintelligent Design":

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/m...all&adxnnlx=1109308029-Ck8E8gpKZwlIZrY3Kkrhdg

Thanks to all, Sherry Austin.
 
SherryA said:
I would like to know if any of you have had extensive experience with Unitarian Universalism. Although I long ago discovered I was allergic to organized religion, I've thus far found UU to be quite different.
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I do not have extensive experience with UU. Really the only experience I have is with my in laws who used to be UU members, but they seem to have stoped going recently for whatever reason.

In any event my MIL described her religion to me as "I can believe whatever I want to and nobody tells me it is wrong."

I suspect the degree of naturalism or wooism found in a UU congregation will vary widely.

I think the fundamental aspect of UU is that they resist telling anyone they are wrong. They also have get togethers that can be very social.

I have heard from atheists on other boards who say they are members of a UU 'church' because there are no atheist organisations near them and they like the social aspect of a church/club.

I think the social aspect and lack of judgementalism is what attracts people to take a look at UUism. What one will find likely varies widely from one group to the next.
 
Brief history lesson, the UU church became such in 1957, with the merger of the two churches.
The Unitarians were a follower of the diest movement, they didn't believe in the trinity and did believe that all christian churches were true churches.
The Universalists were kind of like a hodge podge church that believed all religions are true.

Local congregations vary, some are a lot like the quakers, in that they are quietly very faithful to xianity, other congregations are very secular and pantheistic. Our local church is predomonatly christian but tolerant of other beliefs, the older memebrs got very sniffy when some feminists did a witch ritual.
The UU hymn book is full of quote from other religions and world leaders. It even contains the wiccan 'Charge of the Goddess".
 
c4ts said:
I think Upchurch might be Unitarian.
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Yeppers. I'm relatively new to Unitarianism though, maybe a year and a half or so. My wife and I took a class on the roots of unitarianism either before or just after we joined, so that we had a better understanding of what it was all about.
Originally posted by SherryA
Unfortunately, they also host meetings where woo woo is explored, but long-time UUs tell me that these people make up only about 2 percent and don't stay around long.
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The thing to remember about Unitarianism is that it is a collection of individual non-creedal liberal* churches. I hesitate to even call it a "religion" because that is most often associated with orthodoxy and necessitates an authority figure (usually God).

Since we're not required to believe any one creed (or any at all), there are a wide variety of belief systems and attitudes. Yes, some of them are wooish, but I would say most of them are not beyond the norm of someone who chooses to believe in God. You have to keep in mind that there are also a number of atheists and agnostics who join UU as well, myself included.

Anyway, as a heretical church, the goal is not to preach "correct doctrine and Truth" to the masses, but to provide a forum for people to discuss moral, spiritual, and sometimes political issues and to ultimately find their own personal truth. UU ministers don't so much preach truth as much as offer viewpoints.

As different churches contain different people, and thus different personal truths, each church is different. I have no doubt in my mind that some are decidedly anti-Christian or pro-paranormal or politically conservative. Each church's orientation is really just the sum of the members of that church.

The one my wife and I joined here in Saint Louis is one of several in the area. If I had pick one attribute that describes it, I guess I would have to say it is a socially liberal church. Scripturally, our minister pulls from a huge variety of religious, philosophical and sometimes non-philosophical literature. Heck, she did one "sermon" based on the works of Robert Frost. I've met at least one woman who is a pronounced woo-woo, but I've also met atheists, skeptics, academics and scientists.

Just one distinction: I don't think it is correct to say that UUs think all religions are true. It might be more correct to say that a particular UU member may believe that any one religion (or perhaps a cobbled together version of several religions) may be true. The UUs collectively think that truth comes in many forms don't necessarily discount any religion because it isn't the "one true religion". (maybe that just as seen through my skeptical filter *shrug*)



* not liberal in the political sense, although that often seems to be the case. Correlation, not causation.
 
Thanks, Upchurch, for the thoughts on Unitarian Universalism. I would say that most people in my local congregation are humanists, agnostics, atheists, or believers in earth-centered religions, minus the woo woo. Most are scientists. I should say that the kind of woo woo I have difficulty with is diviniation-centered. I have no problem with abstract theistic beliefs or practices and rituals that are used to help the believer or practioner live a better life or merge with his/her idea of, let's call it "Source." I find my local UU does just that. It's Tarot, astrology, faith healing, calling up the dead, all that stuff I believe is completely, utterly, and obviously bogus.

I'm assuming you enjoy the social or communal aspect of involvement in UU. I'm interested in that which makes agnostics like us attracted to anything resembling church. I understand, too, that the UU concept of morality is centered, as it should be, in how you treat other people, not in what your sexual orientation happens to be, or your adherence to what is considered tradtional morality in the Judeo/Christian Ten Commandments sense. Still, I'm also curious how much hanky panky and scandal (in the conservative Judeo/Christian sense) goes on in UU congregations due to the lack of (conservative, traditional) moral certitude. Maybe there's no more in UU than anywhere else. Heck, maybe there's less. ---SherryA.
 
some are a lot like the quakers, in that they are quietly very faithful to xianity

The Quakers aren't that consistent either..there are agnostic Quakers, and Zen Quakers, alongside the more traditional flavors.

And plenty of schisms, and opposite takes on the way to do things under the umbrella of Quakerism.
 
SherryA said:
It's Tarot, astrology, faith healing, calling up the dead, all that stuff I believe is completely, utterly, and obviously bogus.
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My wife and I attended a couple of classes about Buddism. It was the lady who told us all about her previous lives that bugged me. If she wants to believe that, fine. That wasn't the forum in which to challenge those beliefs, but I always reserve the right to roll my eyes. :rolleyes:
I'm assuming you enjoy the social or communal aspect of involvement in UU.
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Yes, in part. I aslo enjoy the philosophical, moral, and social questions that get raised every week. We've got a relatively new minister who is just now getting comfortable enough with her audience to start pulling out the big issues. A couple of sundays ago, she gave a "sermon" (I have trouble not putting that word in quotes) on same-sex marriage and I thought she handled it brilliantly and brought up a number of aspects that, as a proponent, hadn't considered.
Still, I'm also curious how much hanky panky and scandal (in the conservative Judeo/Christian sense) goes on in UU congregations due to the lack of (conservative, traditional) moral certitude. Maybe there's no more in UU than anywhere else. Heck, maybe there's less. ---SherryA.
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My wife and I are almost certain that our minister is a lesbian. She is very non-committal about it and there is a lot of room for doubt. Regardless, if she were to come out, given my limited experience in the church, I'm fairly certain that a few eyebrows would be raised but no one would suddenly consider her unfit for the job.

However, I'm equally certain that if she were to have an adulterist affair with one of the congregation or molest a child or some such, there would certainly be hell to pay. Metaphorically speaking, of course. ;)
 
UU Issues

Thanks, Upchurch!

Yes, the past lives scenario I consider definitely in the woo department.

About the same sex thing in the UU, ours is a certified Welcoming Congregation and I haven't seen any eyebrows raised about that. (And I'm in the Bible Belt.) The adulterous affair thing was more what I was talking about and you answered that well. I have heard there were UUs pushing for the UUA to rubber stamp polyamory, and when it comes to that, I'm sorry. It has to stop somewhere, I think. --- Sherry A.
 
arthwollipot said:
Sorry - this may be a little off-topic, but what's wooish about midwifery?
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I apologize for not getting back to you.

The 'holistic birthing center' type of New Age midwfery that I've come across uses incense, piped in dolphin and whale sounds, crystals, aura readings, Reiki...anything and everything except prenatal medical care.

Heard one of them in Florida talk about losing a 'patient', because the talked her into having the baby far away from doctors and hospital equipment that might have made a difference when the unexpected occured...they blew the death(s) off as 'God's will'.

Left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
Unitarian/Unity

Crimesearch wrote:
The 'holistic birthing center' type of New Age midwfery that I've come across uses incense, piped in dolphin and whale sounds, crystals, aura readings, Reiki...anything and everything except prenatal medical care.

SherryA writes:
That's too, too bad. I appreciate your sharing that.
Crimesearch, are you sure this was a Unitarian Church that sponsored this, not a UNITY Church? --- SherryA.
 
Actually, the birthing center was a commercial business, and that particular midwife was a Quaker, who had just left the UUs..I'm familiar with Unity, and they are certainly receptive to all sorts of 'alternative' things as well.
 
I decided to check them out because I missed the organization of the Mormon Church. I met once and found the folks to be quite genuine and very friendly. I had no sense of anyone being judgmental but then it was only one meeting. Not my cup of tea I'm afraid. I think its unfamiliarity was the biggest issue and I felt uncomfortable. Though I freely admit that any discomfort was on my part and not caused by any in the church. I also went in with some preconceptions and one visit is not enough to dispel them. Not that they needed to be dispelled by the way. I perceived Unitarians as liberal politically. I have a great respect for liberals I just have a different POV.

Sorry if this was of zero use which I'm beginning to suspect that it was. I would not dissuade anyone from attending.
 
Crimesearch, thanks for clarifying that about the midwifery, etc. I appreciate it.

Thanks, Randfan. That was helpful.
I would say that the Unitarians in general are most definitely of a liberal political persuasion, though I'm in the middle and in the fellowship I attend there is a minority, though a solid one, of conservatives. Before the election one of the "sermons" was a congenial debate between the Democrats and the Republicans in the congregation.

I go to UU because it is such a learning experience. I may have said this before but I think of it as a series of continuing education classes sponsored by Harvard Divinity School. I started going to meetings about evolution and that kind of thing, then started going on Sundays, just sticking my toe in the water every now and then. Now I find I feel quite comfortable. The minister is an evolutionary biologist and he draws from science, many religious tradtitions, and poets and thinkers of all stripes.

I'd be curious to know, if you have the inclination to share, what caused you to leave the Mormon church. --SherryA.
 
SherryA said:
I'd be curious to know, if you have the inclination to share, what caused you to leave the Mormon church. --SherryA.
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I honestly can't give any single answer. It took years and there were many seeds sown throughout my life. I could without exaggeration give a hundred examples.

Believe it or not Bruce Lee played a significant role. He decided to dispense with all of the woo-woo of the Martial Arts. He committed to not lie to others or to himself. I was a huge fan and I decided to do the same.

Reading Ayn Rand was also significant. Through Ayn I learned that objectively searching for the truth was the only way to find it.

The Monty Hall problem was a catalyst that moved propelled me to accept that the church was not true.

You see, I was a very spiritual person. Religion brought me more than comfort. Spirituality and the feeling from it (kind of like a drug) I thought were proof that god was telling me that he existed and that the Church was true.

When I first read the Monty Hall problem I was convinced that my intuition was correct and my answer must be correct even though the experts said I was wrong.. When I realized that I was wrong I realized that my internal intuition could be fooled. Coupled with Ayn Rand and a commitment to find the truth I had to re-examine what I believed.

It was just a matter of time after that.
 
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