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U.S. Interrogators Killed 98

Oliver

Penultimate Amazing
Oliver
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
17,396
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/it-criminal-yet-human-rights-report-u
Human Rights Report: U.S. Interrogators Killed 98

 United States interrogators killed nearly four dozen detainees during or after their interrogations, according a report published by a human rights researcher based on a Human Rights First report and follow up investigations. In all, 98 detainees have died while in US hands. Thirty-four homicides have been identified, with at least eight detainees — and as many as 12 — having been tortured to death, according to a 2006 Human Rights First report that underwrites the researcher’s posting. The causes of 48 more deaths remain uncertain. more
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Did anyone hear about this before? After all, the report is from 2006.
 
Yes it's tragic....we have a lot to answer for - in a nation that espouses democracy, freedom and the pursuit of happiness....lets face it were hypocrites.
 
Like we say sometimes...

I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6...

Quad, I'm in an Armor company 2-5 CAV. You?
 
I think these interrogators who were involved in these murders should be tried for their crimes unless they actually felt they were going to be executed themselves if they did not carry out the interrogation.

I know some will disagree with me, but I am entitled to my own opinions, last I heard this still *was* America...


INRM
 
Quad4_72 said:
Sounds made up.
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Yup must be, the governmenet never admits to such things in FOIA documents, must be a fabrication for sure!

February 2009
http://blog.aclu.org/2009/02/11/newly-unredacted-torture-documents-reveal-deaths-abuse/

“The behavior alleged in the December 2002 Bagram death cases was clearly abusive, and clearly not in keeping with any approved interrogation policy or guidance. In both instances, the deaths followed interrogation sessions in which unauthorized techniques were allegedly employed, but in both cases, these sessions were followed by further alleged abusive behavior outside of the interrogation booth. In light of the uncertainty, the cases are considered for purposes of this report to be interrogation related.”

May 2008
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/35281prs20080514.html

“One of the documents released to the ACLU is a list of at least four prisoner deaths that were the subject of Navy Criminal Investigation Service (NCIS) investigations. The NCIS document contains new information about the deaths of some of these prisoners, including details about Farhad Mohamed, who had contusions under his eyes and the bottom of his chin, a swollen nose, cuts and large bumps on his forehead when he died in Mosul in 2004. The document also includes details about Naem Sadoon Hatab, a 52-year-old Iraqi man who was strangled to death at the Whitehorse detainment facility in Nasiriyah in June 2003; the shooting death of Hemdan El Gashame in Nasiriyah in March 2003; and the death of Manadel Jamadi during an interrogation after his head was beaten with a stove at Abu Ghraib in November 2003.”

May 2006
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/25406prs20060502.html

‘The ACLU said the document makes clear that while President Bush and other officials assured the world that what occurred at Abu Ghraib was the work of “a few bad apples,” the government knew that abuse was happening in numerous facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of the 62 cases being investigated at the time, at least 26 involved detainee deaths. Some of the cases had already gone through a court-martial proceeding. The abuses went beyond Abu Ghraib, and touched Camp Cropper, Camp Bucca and other detention centers in Mosul, Samarra, Baghdad, Tikrit, as well as Orgun-E in Afghanistan.”
 
Makes waterboarding seem rather tame, does it not?

If the number is right (I had heard over twenty, so not sure how they got 98) it's a sign of gross leadership failures.

Gross.

DR
 
Yeah this is really nasty stuff. And at least some of it's been dribbled out in the news over the last few years without ever getting a huge amount of attention nationwide.

Investigation and prosecutions for these homicides have been seriously deficient.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Makes waterboarding seem rather tame, does it not?

If the number is right (I had heard over twenty, so not sure how they got 98) it's a sign of gross leadership failures.

Gross.

DR
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But all perfectly legal. When you get to decide what is legal it makes everything easier.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Yeah this is really nasty stuff. And at least some of it's been dribbled out in the news over the last few years without ever getting a huge amount of attention nationwide.

Investigation and prosecutions for these homicides have been seriously deficient.
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The point is nothing wrong happened, as no one cares. This is why the real reason that those in abu graib where punished was for taking pictures that got into the media, this made the army look bad in ways that reports of deaths never will. So they got punished.

It is all image, much more important than law.
 
Sorry AOBC?
I take it you mean training? (Wow being an officer is really interesting, I has a friend who was court martialed for not making sure the motor was mounted to the frame on the Abrahams PV when he checked it out of the motor pool. He was vindicated, but he was the one in court because he was a sergant and the other guy was a higher rank. Hats off and more thanks to you.)
(Thanks for serving, have many friend who are active and others who are vets.)
 
ponderingturtle said:
But all perfectly legal. When you get to decide what is legal it makes everything easier.
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No, those are your words, and false.

IIRC, at least one of the cases where a prisoner died in custody, something about suffocating in a sleeping bag, charges were brought.

Memory hazy.

DR
 
It's getting to the point now that when you roll someone up you gotta make it airtight or the Iraqi court will throw it out. Any beating or mistreatment and they let them go.

The intelligence we get is usually lame so it will be like "OK, we have to hit this house but he also might be in this house and this house" and by the time we are on site we're stacking up on every door 4 houses on either side of the "target" house. Then we roll up all military age males and usually a few will come up hot. If they get turned over to the Iraqi Army then God help them.

So I have a hard time seeing anything like torture happening now to detainees. We're not willing to risk it, not only from the PR angle but also we don't want these dudes running around after they get rolled up. It make little military sense and to be honest I think any intelligence you get from torture will not be valuable intelligence but that's another topic.

Ah, looks like we got a "Sir" here. Listen to your NCOs.
 
Darth Rotor said:
No, those are your words, and false.

IIRC, at least one of the cases where a prisoner died in custody, something about suffocating in a sleeping bag, charges were brought.
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But with out something stronger than just reports there will very rarely be charges brought. So charges are usually brought not because of any wrong doing, but because of political concerns.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
???


Interrogator: " Hey ! Someone hand me that stove ... "
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I'm pretty sure they meant something like this:

EsbitStove.jpg



And not like this:

WoodStoveF.jpg
 
Finally started reading the real PDF. But here is one of the very important parts I believe.

3 We use the same definition of “homicide” as the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division: “Death resulting from the intentional (explicit or
implied) or grossly reckless behavior of another person or persons.” As the Army itself points out, this definition is different from murder,
which, like manslaughter, is a legal term that requires a judge or jury to find that the intent behind the death had a degree of maliciousness.
Dep’t of the Army, Criminal Investigation Division, Frequently Asked Questions, http://www.cid.army.mil/faqs.htm (accessed Feb. 3,
2006) (citing to Title 18, U.S. Code definition of “Murder” as “the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought.”). See DIC
Table: There are 20 homicides in which investigators found unjustified homicide or in which there were prosecutions for a death and 14
that investigators found justifiable. The 20 unjustified homicides are: Sayari (criminal investigators found probable cause for conspiracy to
murder); Dilawar and Habibullah (probable cause for crimes ranging from involuntary manslaughter to lying to investigators); Unknown 2
(murder charge); Hatab (charges initially brought included voluntary manslaughter; commanders later dropped the charge), Wali (federal
criminal assault charges in connection with death); Radad (criminal investigators found probable cause for murder); F. Mohammed
(prosecutors brought charges including assault with intent to cause death); al-Jamadi (pathologist ruled case a homicide; court martial for
assault and battery); Mowhoush (court martial brought on murder charge); Hassoun (two soldiers charged with manslaughter, one other
charged with involuntary manslaughter); Ismail (soldier charged with murder, but acquitted); Jameel (criminal investigators recommended
charges including negligent homicide); Kadir (manslaughter conviction); Kareem and Hanjil (criminal investigators recommended, and
commanders considered but ultimately dropped, murder charges); Unknowns 18 and 19 (two soldiers court-martialed for murders,
received 25 and 5 years in jail, respectively); T. Ahmed (soldier guilty of murder); Unknown 22 (soldier charged with murder). The 14
deaths found by the military to be justified homicides are: al-Haddii; Jabar; A. Hassan; Unknown 7; Sayar; Salman; Shalaan; Thawin; Amir;
Farhan; K. Mahmood; al-Bawi; Ghafar and Habib.
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It seems that there are a lot of investigations and a lot of people being held responsible. Obviously there needs to be more done, and these deaths can't be called good things, but not nearly the 'evil America' or 'hypocrites' evidence that it has been held up to be.

Still reading though.
 
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