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Tunguska....meteoroid, comet, tesla, antimatter or something else?

andyandy

anthropomorphic ape
andyandy
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
8,377
This is a really fascinating event....

The Tunguska event was a natural explosion that occurred in Siberia on June 30, 1908. The energy of the blast was later estimated to be between 10 and 15 megaton TNT. It felled an estimated 60 million trees over 2,150 square kilometers.....just before the event, eye winesses observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.

The explosion registered on seismic stations across Eurasia, and produced fluctuations in atmospheric pressure strong enough to be detected by the recently invented barographs in Britain. Over the next few weeks, night skies were aglow such that one could read in their light. In the United States, the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory and the Mount Wilson Observatory observed a decrease in atmospheric transparency that lasted for several months. Radon gas was supposedly measured by an investigating team....and also evidence of radiation in the soil.

Now, there is a lot of speculation as to what caused the explosion....
meteriod
asteroid/comet
seem the most likely....

but there are other more speculative explanations....
black hole
anti matter
electromagnetism
methane gas explosion

and the downright out there ideas.....
UFO
Tesla's death ray

Anyway, the fact that there appears to still not be a consensus makes it an interesting event to look at - especially as such an event over a major city would have been pretty devastating....
you can read all about it on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event

the latest research (i think) seems to regard a low density asteroid as the most likely http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1628806.stm

and a russian scientist even blames the event for global warming http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/tunguska.shtml

so what do you think? :) :) :)
 
Having read a couple books and articles on the event, it appears that the consensus among scientists is a comet or asteroid. Presumably the thing would have blown up at some altitude due to the heat and pressure, causing much the same blast effect as an aerial nuclear burst.

The lack of any crater would indicate that not much of anything solid struck. As I recall from the one book, the idea of something exotic like a small black hole would have caused a similar disruption on the other side of the planet as it passed through.

Many years ago, Arthur Clarke had noted that a similar event occurring during the height of the cold war might well have precipitated a nuclear exchange. The Soviets and ourselves were on a "launch on detection" basis, and a large explosion near a major city might have sent the balloon up.
 
I think the explosion was due to a faulty time machine.

People from the future were attempting to travel back to visit a remote part of Russia in 1908, but something went horribly wrong.

They were time travelling to try and investigate the mystery of the Tunguska explosion.
 
yeah...i think it would've been a push the button situation if there'd been a massive explosion anywhere in the USSR (or the US for that matter)....can't imagine the military would have been too responsive to the "but it came from outer space" prostestations....:) :)

what's remarkable is that the models predict that the asteroid/comet would only have been 60metres across....which is pretty small in astronomical terms....and yet still had such a huge blast radius....would that be partly because it exploded so far above the earth?

has anyone done a model to look at the size of asteroid/comets - and what impacts they would have on earth? Say for example, what would happen if a 1km asteroid impacted in Australia....? How big would the blast radius be? Would any kangaroos survive? :) :)
 
ceptimus said:
I think the explosion was due to a faulty time machine.

People from the future were attempting to travel back to visit a remote part of Russia in 1908, but something went horribly wrong.

They were time travelling to try and investigate the mystery of the Tunguska explosion.
Click to expand...

lol :)

pad that out to about 300 pages.....stick in some glossy photos, and u've got yourself a million-seller....
:) :)
 
the internet truly is a wonderful place.....
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/
let's you play celestial rock thrower......


Projectile Diameter: 1000.00 m = 3280.00 ft = 0.62 miles
Projectile Density: 3000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 17.00 km/s = 10.56 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 2500 kg/m3
Target Type: Sedimentary Rock

Energy:
Energy before atmospheric entry: 2.27 x 1020 Joules = 5.42 x 104 MegaTons TNT

The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years is 4.9 x 10(^5)years

Atmospheric Entry:
The projectile begins to breakup at an altitude of 54000 meters = 177000 ft
The projectile reaches the ground in a broken condition. The mass of projectile strikes the surface at velocity 16.9 km/s = 10.5 miles/s

The impact energy is 2.24 x 1020 Joules = 5.35 x 104MegaTons.

Major Global Changes:
The Earth is not strongly disturbed by the impact and loses negligible mass.
The impact does not make a noticeable change in the Earth's rotation period or the tilt of its axis.

The impact does not shift the Earth's orbit noticeably.

Crater Dimensions:
Transient Crater Diameter: 10.5 km = 6.55 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 3.73 km = 2.32 miles
 
ok....let's get nasty....lol
this one also measures what someone 3000km away would feel.....

Your Inputs:


Distance from Impact: 3000.00 km = 1863.00 miles
Projectile Diameter: 2000.00 m = 6560.00 ft = 1.24 miles
Projectile Density: 8000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 51.00 km/s = 31.67 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 1000 kg/m3
Target Type: Liquid Water of depth 1000.00 meters, over typical rock.


Energy:
Energy before atmospheric entry: 4.36 x 1022 Joules = 1.04 x 107 MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years is 2.8 x 10(^7)years

Major Global Changes:
The Earth is not strongly disturbed by the impact and loses negligible mass.
The impact does not make a noticeable change in the Earth's rotation period or the tilt of its axis.
The impact does not shift the Earth's orbit noticeably

Crater Dimensions:
The crater opened in the water has a diameter of 65.1 km = 40.4 miles


For the crater formed in the seafloor:
Transient Crater Diameter: 37.8 km = 23.5 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 13.4 km = 8.3 miles



Seismic Effects:

The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 600 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 9.2
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 3000 km:


III. Felt quite noticeably by persons indoors, especially on upper floors of buildings. Many people do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing motor cars may rock slightly. Vibrations similar to the passing of a truck.

IV. Felt indoors by many, outdoors by few during the day. At night, some awakened. Dishes, windows, doors disturbed; walls make cracking sound. Sensation like heavy truck striking building. Standing motor cars rocked noticeably.


The ejecta will arrive approximately 1020 seconds after the impact.
At your position there is a fine dusting of ejecta with occasional larger fragments
Average Ejecta Thickness: 676 micrometers = 26.6 1/1000 of an inch
Mean Fragment Diameter: 49.5 micrometers = 1.95 1/1000 of an inch


Air Blast:

The air blast will arrive at approximately 9090 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 5520 Pa = 0.0552 bars = 0.784 psi
Max wind velocity: 12.7 m/s = 28.5 mph
Sound Intensity: 75 dB (Loud as heavy traffic)
 
According to Robert Foot it was caused by Mirror Matter.







Mind you, according to Robert Foot, everything is caused by Mirror Matter!! :rolleyes:
 
damn this is fun :)
last one....thankfully this one's was only possible during the earth's formation.....just as well really :) remember this is for someone standing 3000km away......

Distance from Impact: 3000.00 km = 1863.00 miles
Projectile Diameter: 100000.00 m = 328000.00 ft = 62.10 miles
Projectile Density: 1000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 51.00 km/s = 31.67 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 1000 kg/m3
Target Type: Liquid Water of depth 1000.00 meters, over typical rock.

Energy:
Energy before atmospheric entry: 6.81 x 1026 Joules = 1.63 x 1011 MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size is longer than the Earth's age.
Such impacts could only occur during the accumulation of the Earth, between 4.5 and 4 billion years ago.

Major Global Changes:
The Earth is not strongly disturbed by the impact and loses negligible mass.
The impact does not make a noticeable change in the Earth's rotation period or the tilt of its axis.
The impact does not shift the Earth's orbit noticeably.


Crater Dimensions:

The crater opened in the water has a diameter of 689 km = 428 miles


For the crater formed in the seafloor:
Transient Crater Diameter: 418 km = 259 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 148 km = 91.7 miles

Thermal Radiation:

Time for maximum radiation: 34.5 seconds after impact


Visible fireball radius: 1070 km = 662 miles
The fireball appears 80.7 times larger than the sun
Thermal Exposure: 1.85 x 1010 Joules/m2
Duration of Irradiation: 22900 seconds
Radiant flux (relative to the sun): 808


Effects of Thermal Radiation:


Clothing ignites

Much of the body suffers third degree burns

Newspaper ignites

Plywood flames

Deciduous trees ignite

Grass ignites



Seismic Effects:

The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 600 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 12.1 (This is greater than any earthquake in recorded history)
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 3000 km:


VII. Damage negligible in buildings of good design and construction; slight to moderate in well-built ordinary structures; considerable damage in poorly built or badly designed structures; some chimneys broken.

VIII. Damage slight in specially designed structures; considerable damage in ordinary substantial buildings with partial collapse. Damage great in poorly built structures. Fall of chimneys, factory stacks, columns, monuments, walls. Heavy furniture overturned.


Ejecta:

The ejecta will arrive approximately 1020 seconds after the impact.
Average Ejecta Thickness: 10 m = 33 ft
Mean Fragment Diameter: 810 micrometers = 31.9 1/1000 of an inch


Air Blast:

The air blast will arrive at approximately 9090 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 2.68e+06 Pa = 26.8 bars = 380 psi
Max wind velocity: 1290 m/s = 2890 mph
Sound Intensity: 129 dB (Dangerously Loud)
Damage Description:


Multistory wall-bearing buildings will collapse.

Wood frame buildings will almost completely collapse.

Multistory steel-framed office-type buildings will suffer extreme frame distortion, incipient collapse.

Highway truss bridges will collapse.

Highway girder bridges will collapse.

Glass windows will shatter.

Cars and trucks will be largely displaced and grossly distorted and will require rebuilding before use.

Up to 90 percent of trees blown down; remainder stripped of branches and leaves
 
wollery said:
According to Robert Foot it was caused by Mirror Matter.

Mind you, according to Robert Foot, everything is caused by Mirror Matter!! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

interesting....i've pasted the paragraph....i think it's short enough to avoid the snip :)

Mirror matter is predicted to exist if parity (i.e. left-right symmetry) is a symmetry of nature. Remarkably mirror matter is capable of simply explaining a large number of contemporary puzzles in astrophysics and particle physics including: Explanation of the MACHO gravitational microlensing events, the existence of close-in extrasolar gas giant planets, apparently `isolated' planets, the solar, atmospheric and LSND neutrino anomalies, the orthopositronium lifetime anomaly and perhaps even gamma ray bursts. One fascinating possibility is that our solar system contains small mirror matter space bodies (asteroid or comet sized objects), which are too small to be revealed from their gravitational effects but nevertheless have explosive implications when they collide with the Earth. We examine the possibility that the 1908 Tunguska explosion in Siberia was the result of the collision of a mirror matter space body with the Earth.
 
mirror matter sounds kinda like dark matter to me....what's the difference?
 
Natural nuclear explosions do occur - my bet is that that's what Tunguska was.
 
Polaris said:
Natural nuclear explosions do occur - my bet is that that's what Tunguska was.
Click to expand...

when have natural nuclear explosions taken place? I know there have been examples of massive explosions caused by a build up of methane under the earth...but hadnt heard of nuclear ones.....
 
There are naturally occuring nuclear reactions, but I've never heard of a natural terrestrial nuclear explosion. Any references for this would be appreciated.
 
Polaris said:
Natural nuclear explosions do occur - my bet is that that's what Tunguska was.
Click to expand...
As wollery said, a nuclear chain reaction (which does indeed occur in nature) isn't the same as an explosion. Do you have evidence that a natural atomic explosion has happened on Earth? I've never heard of such a thing.

If this were the case, wouldn't there still be measurable radiation -- above the background average -- at Tunguska? Such radiation hasn't been measured, unless you believe Aleksey Zoltov's readings are valid while all others are wrong.

I suspect a small comet or a fragmenting meteor. And I doubt we'll ever be able to know for sure what happened.
 
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well....i guess they would have "absorbed" the strike, ignored the prostestations of extra-terrestrial origin and then retaliated :)
 
wollery said:
There are naturally occuring nuclear reactions, but I've never heard of a natural terrestrial nuclear explosion. Any references for this would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Ah, that explains it then. It had been a while since I read something like that - made the leap in my mind from "reaction" to "explosion" in my mind.
 
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