Trump's Coup d'état.

[Mader Levap]

Someone wanted it, so here it is.

We already have republiloons behaving like their fuhrer won second term, screaming unsubstantiated allegations of fraud and peddling ridiculous conspiracy theories. Crazies send death threats to officials involved in elections. What's next?

Coup is logical endgame for wanna-be authoritarian party working hard on removing "wanna-be" part.

How likely it is? Why they would do that right now, just for Trump? If it happens, how republicans would pull it off (literal military coup, SCOTUS shenanigans, something else)? What reaction it would cause? How it all ends?
Or maybe it is just ploy for those two last senate seats in Georgia and nothing serious comes out of it?

Note that while SCOTUS giving presidency to Trump technically is not coup*, nevertheless it is within topic of this thread, since a lot of people would consider it coup and transformation of USA into rightwing authoritarian state.

* According to certain local rethuglicans here, so take it with entire moon of salt.

 

[d4m10n]

How likely it is?

Hard to say, but the ongoing silence of most elected Republicans and the complicity of appointed toadies officials like Pompeo makes it seem increasingly likely from where I'm sitting.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason.

- John Harington

 

[psionl0]

"As we said on July 19th, the American people will decide this election. And the United States government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House,” campaign spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a statement.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/li...s-11-06-20/h_2fbbffa95ed6350c68af1b75f623ea73

 

[Olmstead]

He would if he could.

Can he?

 

[dmaker]

One thing the last few years, and more specifically the last week, have done is to help me truly understand some aspects of history better.

As a student of history, I have always grappled with trying to get a more visceral feel for how certain things could have come to pass. For example, the rise of fascism in Europe. I can read the texts and understand the larger forces at work, but because the resulting society and regime were often so repugnant to my modern liberal mindset, it was always very difficult to come away with anything more than an academic feel for the facts, but little actual understanding of how those times must have felt to those living in them. Excellent books like They Thought They Were Free:The Germans, 1933-45 (Milton Mayer) come about as close to that slippery understanding than any other that I have read, but still I was always left feeling that I didn't truly understand how people let it happen.

Recent events in the US have closed that academic vs real world feel gap. Now I understand better how regimes like that start to rise.

It's pretty scary.

 

[The Atheist]

Crazies send death threats to officials involved in elections. What's next?

1 - Continue to refuse to accept the result.
2 - Issue executive order banning the Electoral College from gathering.
3 - Wait for riots to start.
4 - Engage military to quell riots.
5 - Declare Martial Law.
6 - Accept Putin's congratulations.

Ta-da!

 

[cosmicaug]

1 - Continue to refuse to accept the result.
2 - Issue executive order banning the Electoral College from gathering.
3 - Wait for riots to start.
4 - Engage military to quell riots.

How could that happen? The top people at the Defense Department have made it pretty clear that they are not behind anything like that.

Oh, wait....

 

[dudalb]

1 - Continue to refuse to accept the result.
2 - Issue executive order banning the Electoral College from gathering.
3 - Wait for riots to start.
4 - Engage military to quell riots.
5 - Declare Martial Law.
6 - Accept Putin's congratulations.

Ta-da!

Highly unlikely scenario.
Not that Trump would not like to do it, but he could not.
For one thing, he cannot roder the EC not to meet.

 

[dudalb]

I think ww are into Disaster Porn here.

 

[Cavemonster]

I think ww are into Disaster Porn here.

Probably.
But we've had four years of "Trump can't do that, it's illegal!" And every time, the fact that he controls the executive branch and there is no mechanism to enforce the law means he CAN do that.

So at this point, if we can agree he wants to stage a coup, it's reasonable to ask the question very specifically of who would stop him? If it relies on action from within the executive branch, what's to stop that action from being up to Trump loyalists?

If he can ignore subpoenas, and court orders and laws, who are the individuals who physically remove him, and what stops him from making sure those individuals and their bosses are more loyal to him than the law?

 

[Vixen]

One thing the last few years, and more specifically the last week, have done is to help me truly understand some aspects of history better.

As a student of history, I have always grappled with trying to get a more visceral feel for how certain things could have come to pass. For example, the rise of fascism in Europe. I can read the texts and understand the larger forces at work, but because the resulting society and regime were often so repugnant to my modern liberal mindset, it was always very difficult to come away with anything more than an academic feel for the facts, but little actual understanding of how those times must have felt to those living in them. Excellent books like They Thought They Were Free:The Germans, 1933-45 (Milton Mayer) come about as close to that slippery understanding than any other that I have read, but still I was always left feeling that I didn't truly understand how people let it happen.

Recent events in the US have closed that academic vs real world feel gap. Now I understand better how regimes like that start to rise.

It's pretty scary.

Looking at the other end of the spectrum, if we look at the Bolshevik Revolution, 1917, what made it successful was (a) having the masses on your side, (b) having the army on side and (c) strong leadership ready with slogans and propaganda.

Often, it involves arresting the current incumbent (in this case it would be Joe Biden) and their officers, putting them all on trial and finding them guilty of acts against the state. A military dictator is put in place, so we might see Trump received the title of General, as he sends in the National Guard to quell the inevitable uprising by angry disenfranchised citizens, with the Proud Boys and the gun lobby MAGA mob as vigilantes. We saw Trump defending these types.

 

[d4m10n]

I've spent a little energy trying to envision how the Trumpers think they can pull this off. From what I can tell—after sitting through the infamous Four Seasons press briefing—the plan is to overturn the results in GA with a hand recount and then overturn PA & MI by somehow getting the courts to declare tens of thousands of votes invalid in major metropolitan centers such as Philly and Detroit.

ETA: If you want "disaster porn" just imagine how the residents of those cities would respond to judicial disfranchisement overturning the statewide result.

 

[Chanakya]

I think ww are into Disaster Porn here.

Probably.
But we've had four years of "Trump can't do that, it's illegal!" And every time, the fact that he controls the executive branch and there is no mechanism to enforce the law means he CAN do that.

So at this point, if we can agree he wants to stage a coup, it's reasonable to ask the question very specifically of who would stop him? If it relies on action from within the executive branch, what's to stop that action from being up to Trump loyalists?

If he can ignore subpoenas, and court orders and laws, who are the individuals who physically remove him, and what stops him from making sure those individuals and their bosses are more loyal to him than the law?

This.

Agreed, this is way far-fetched. But then, so much that everyone thought was simply impossible turned out to be entirely possible.

Fingers crossed! This isn't over until it's actually over.

 

[Vixen]

The latest meme doing the rounds on social media.

 

[timhau]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum, if we look at the Bolshevik Revolution, 1917, what made it successful was (a) having the masses on your side, (b) having the army on side and (c) strong leadership ready with slogans and propaganda.

Actually, they didn't have (a), had most of (b), and (c) at least when it comes to propaganda. What was most impotrant was their willingness to do **** that the other factions wouldn't.

 

[dudalb]

I've spent a little energy trying to envision how the Trumpers think they can pull this off. From what I can tell—after sitting through the infamous Four Seasons press briefing—the plan is to overturn the results in GA with a hand recount and then overturn PA & MI by somehow getting the courts to declare tens of thousands of votes invalid in major metropolitan centers such as Philly and Detroit.

ETA: If you want "disaster porn" just imagine how the residents of those cities would respond to judicial disfranchisement overturning the statewide result.

That is slightly more plausible then the scenario that The Atheist put out, which has several WTF moments, and clearly come sfrom somebody who has little understanding of how the Amrrican system works and who clearly hates the US.

 

[dirtywick]

Restructuring the pentagon, CIA, and FBI with loyalist is troubling.

But there are many members of government that have indicated they will respect the results of the election. But equally troubling is those who say the "legal" votes and things of that nature.

Point is, Trump hasn't been acting like he's going to acknowledge the results of the election, but he can't do it alone either

 

[Cain]

I've spent a little energy trying to envision how the Trumpers think they can pull this off. From what I can tell—after sitting through the infamous Four Seasons press briefing—the plan is to overturn the results in GA with a hand recount and then overturn PA & MI by somehow getting the courts to declare tens of thousands of votes invalid in major metropolitan centers such as Philly and Detroit.

ETA: If you want "disaster porn" just imagine how the residents of those cities would respond to judicial disfranchisement overturning the statewide result.

Anti-democratic forces have institutions in place -- namely, the Electoral College. There were rumblings prior to the election of installing faithless electors. (In fairness, the Trump administration is so lazy and inefficient that planning probably never rose above Sharpie on cocktail napkins.)

I saw an article recently titled something along the lines of "Trump Decapitates Civilian Leadership at Pentagon." Another commenter says it's probably a cover-up rather than a coup (keeping certain dealings secret and preventing access to the transition team).

As I said in another thread, an attempted coup might be one of the best things that could happen in the long-term because it would discredit Trump as a mainstream political force. Also, four years ago, I was promised outright fascism. A coup is extremely unlikely, but 1% threats need to be taken seriously if they're sufficiently, well, disastrous.

 

[cosmicaug]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum, if we look at the Bolshevik Revolution, 1917, what made it successful was (a) having the masses on your side, (b) having the army on side and (c) strong leadership ready with slogans and propaganda.

Often, it involves arresting the current incumbent (in this case it would be Joe Biden) and their officers, putting them all on trial and finding them guilty of acts against the state. A military dictator is put in place, so we might see Trump received the title of General, as he sends in the National Guard to quell the inevitable uprising by angry disenfranchised citizens, with the Proud Boys and the gun lobby MAGA mob as vigilantes. We saw Trump defending these types.

I'm greatly relieved! Thank dog that Trump has never talked about prosecuting his political rivals and that we don't have anyone in his cabinet who has talked about executing Trump's enemies for treason!