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Trivial penalties for stealing millions and ruining the lives of multiple people

Our standard response is because America is beyond saving and civil war any day but this happened in Australia so I don't know what to say.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Our standard response is because America is beyond saving and civil war any day but this happened in Australia so I don't know what to say.
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You may want to check to see if Vlad will even pay you for posts in a thread about Australia. Half rate, at best.
 
Probably a bunch of bad reasons. Good lawyers are expensive? The public can easily imagine themselves as victims of smaller, more personal crimes, but being the victim of a ponzi scheme seems kind of abstract, until it doesn't?
 
These are the sentencing decisions that upset me.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...h-that-killed-pedestrian-20211119-p59ah5.html

A driver who hit and killed a pedestrian when distracted reaching for a vase on her passenger seat has been spared jail because of her remorse and “parlous” mental state.

Patricia Mica was moving house on July 5, 2019 when she took her eyes off the road when trying to prevent a vase falling from the front seat and hit Astrid Norman in Riversdale Road, Camberwell.
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I’m not saying that this woman should be locked away for years, but convicted of culpable driving causing death and no time at all?

By comparison Vlahos got a fair whack.
 
I guess we could look at civil judgements in wrongful death suits. Equivalate that to white collar crime- Usual wrongful death judgement $5M, then death penalty if white collar crime exceeds $5M. Seems like the embodiment of "fair and usual punishment". :D
 
a_unique_person said:
He's destroyed the lives of multiple people. It should be life
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Multiple people who got spanked in a caveat emptor scenario. If you willingly invest so much of your money in a speculative proposition that you'll be ruined if it fails, you are ethically (though not legally) complicit in your own ruination. Nine years seems light, but not to the point of outrage.
 
Holup. This guy says he has a secret mathematical formula to win at horsey races? And these saps bought that?

He didn't ruin anyone's life. They ruined their own through greed and laziness.
 
theprestige said:
Multiple people who got spanked in a caveat emptor scenario. If you willingly invest so much of your money in a speculative proposition that you'll be ruined if it fails, you are ethically (though not legally) complicit in your own ruination. Nine years seems light, but not to the point of outrage.
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Did you read about this? This is not a speculative investment gone wrong, it’s out and out fraud.
 
a_unique_person said:
He's destroyed the lives of multiple people. It should be life
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Like this guy?
One man transferred $1.2 million directly into the racing identity's personal bank account, convinced that his investment would generate life-changing cash
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Apparently having $1.2 million wasn't 'life-changing' enough for him - he wanted more! Hopefully he got the 'life change' he deserved.

None of these 'punters' ever stop to think about where their winnings are coming from - mostly poor saps who have become addicted to gambling in a desperate effort to escape poverty. The entire industry is built on milking them, but who gets punished for it? Only those who themselves are suffering from a mental condition that makes them too brazen to cover their tracks.

If Bill Vlahos had been more careful he could have run his scheme forever and nobody would have lifted a finger. But he didn't because he suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. The cure for this condition is of course 4-9 years in prison. When all you have is a hammer...
 
theprestige said:
Multiple people who got spanked in a caveat emptor scenario. If you willingly invest so much of your money in a speculative proposition that you'll be ruined if it fails, you are ethically (though not legally) complicit in your own ruination. Nine years seems light, but not to the point of outrage.
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That sort of thinking (his victims ought to have known better) shouldn't excuse what he did. You could say that about most fraud schemes. They always rely on the victims making poor decisions.

That said, 9 years in prison doesn't seem like too much of a travesty to me. I wonder if Elizabeth Holmes will get a comparable punishment.
 
The purpose of a criminal punishment is not to "cure" the criminal of whatever sort of personality disorder caused them to commit a crime. It is to punish the crime and to deter others, and to deliver justice to the victims. I think the last bit, to salve the feelings of the victims, is more important than people realize. If people don't see the justice system delivering justice, they may instead be tempted to take the law into their own hands. This in turn would lead to more social chaos.

As imperfect as our justice system is, it still beats anarchy and vigilantism.
 
Puppycow said:
The purpose of a criminal punishment is not to "cure" the criminal of whatever sort of personality disorder caused them to commit a crime. It is to punish the crime and to deter others, and to deliver justice to the victims. I think the last bit, to salve the feelings of the victims, is more important than people realize. If people don't see the justice system delivering justice, they may instead be tempted to take the law into their own hands. This in turn would lead to more social chaos.

As imperfect as our justice system is, it still beats anarchy and vigilantism.
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I think for people like Vlahos, you'll never rehabilitate them and they are incapable of feeling remorse. Lock them up. Throw away the key.
 
a_unique_person said:
Melbourne racing identity Bill Vlahos jailed for nine years for $17.5m punting Ponzi scheme
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12...cing-ponzi-scheme-melbourne-betting/100708368

Why can someone commit a "white collar" crime and get a slap on the wrist for it? There is a real incentive there to make major crime worth the risk.
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Heh, the usual complaint is that people convicted of financial crimes (especially against the government) get longer sentences than murderers. Now it seems that this is the desired result.

The prison term seems long enough but he should also be ordered to make restitution to all those he swindled and not be able to escape the order through bankruptcy.
 
Puppycow said:
The purpose of a criminal punishment is not to "cure" the criminal of whatever sort of personality disorder caused them to commit a crime.
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It is? Where is this written?

"Cure" would seem to me to be a much more effective goal, if it could be done. It means you won't have to spend money on incarcerating them all over again some time after you've let them out.
 
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psionl0 said:
Heh, the usual complaint is that people convicted of financial crimes (especially against the government) get longer sentences than murderers. Now it seems that this is the desired result.

The prison term seems long enough but he should also be ordered to make restitution to all those he swindled and not be able to escape the order through bankruptcy.
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yes agreed,
 
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