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Throwing away my vote.

Roadtoad

Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
15,468
Location
Citrus Heights, CA
It took me time to figure it out, but when all is said and done, neither Bush nor Kerry deserves to be in office. At all.

Take John Kerry for example. First and formost, let's forget the Swifties and MoveOn. Neither of them apply here. What matters is the man and what he proposes. I have reviewed what he proposes, I've read what his website says he wants to do, I've listened to the news media, and I'm finally prepared to say this man is a complete @$$.

What did it for me was listening once more to his testimony before the U.S. Senate in 1971. Now, it would seem to me, given that My Lai occured in 1968, (if I'm not mistaken), that any man who confessed to that august body in 1971 claiming that he personally participated in war crimes who was not arrested and charged that day, either had to have very powerful connections that provided some immunity, (which would indicate to me that Kerry could not be trusted), or it had to be said that the Senate knew they were being fed a load of bullsh**, (which would indicate to me that Kerry could not be trusted.)

Add to this that he now says that most of the tax cuts the Bush Administration pushed through were a good idea, that he, too, would have gone into Iraq, and that he has some support in his heart for the Patriot Act, and it seems to me this man has nothing really to differentiate himself from Bush, other than the fact that he's not Bush.

What finally did it for me is that the man cannot even approve of a frigging pay raise for American service men and women. Considering that some are actually getting Food Stamps, for God's sake, I'm sorry, but I can't see any excuse for not giving these people a bump in their pay.

Now, let us consider Bush: He's lied to us. He's given sweetheart deals to his cronies, he's running the country into ruin. I didn't expect him to make friends with everyone around the globe, but at some point, I did expect him to take a greater hand in at least soothing some of the frazzled nerves he created. He hasn't, and if anything, he's leaving people thinking we're off our freaking rocker.

Add to this the Patriot Act, (and you can read more about it in the appropriate thread, and thank you, Blue Monk, for posting the whole act on your website). This little gem threatens to undermine over 225 years of stable democratic leadership, and in the hands of that f***ing troglodyte, John Ashcroft, a man who lost his seat in Congress to a dead guy, we're already seeing what can happen to even average law abiding citizens. (Sometimes, you have to wonder why the FBI wants to know what you're reading. Why is it their business?)

So, I'm trying to decide: Michael Badnarik? (Is that how you spell it, Shanek?) Ralph Nader? (Peter Camejo ran for Governor against Arnold. He might have made a good governor, too.) Maybe a write in candidate.

What would you do? Frankly, I can't stand either Bush or Kerry. Both of them ought to retire and go fishing. (No, scratch that. I like fishing. Maybe they could just retire and go sit on a porch and stay out of the Public Eye for a few years. Or just fade out. Or something. Just GET OUT!)
 
Your 1 vote doesn't matter, but it defines what group you belong to.... the non-voters. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't think you are an individual by not voting. Rebels are not original, in fact they are the biggest conformists of all.

Although a lot of what you said is very true.
 
LOL

We live on the Left Coast and polls close on the east coast first. Our votes don't matter... it's all over except the fat lady singing by the time the polls close here.

Relax Toad. The real beauty of the good ol' USA is that we can survive either one of the two idiots of whom one will win. (sorry, Badnarik ain't one of 'em and neither is Nader)

I'm going to vote for Nader, just to upset the Democrats who will cry for the next four years about how Nader "stole" their votes.
 
Fair points, RT.

Can I ask, out of interest: If you HAD to vote, which one would be the least bad for the future of the USA today?
 
Zep said:
Fair points, RT.

Can I ask, out of interest: If you HAD to vote, which one would be the least bad for the future of the USA today?

The Tasmanian Devil.

(Yeah, I know. You think I'm joking!!!)
 
peptoabysmal said:
We live on the Left Coast and polls close on the east coast first. Our votes don't matter... it's all over except the fat lady singing by the time the polls close here.


It seems that no political party can survive without a sizable base of lemmings. The smart people all recognize that voting is a matter of mass group psychology, so a lot of them choose not to bother since 1 vote is truely meaningless..

The net result is that any party can only have a limited number of intelligent (largely non-voting) people in it. Seems rather self-defeating.

(I guess you could argue that lemmings may be intelligent too, but I really don't want to argue about definitions.)
 
American said:
(I guess you could argue that lemmings may be intelligent too, but I really don't want to argue about definitions.)

Lemmings are smarter than we are. They throw themselves into the North Sea rather than put up with the sh** we do.
 
You get my vote Road Toad. We don't always agree but I respect very much your opinion. I wold not at all try to influence you. I wish there were a viable third candidate. I wouldn't at all mind voting for McCain who is head and shoulders above both these guys. But then he isn't perfect either.

RandFan
 
Roadtoad said:
It took me time to figure it out, but when all is said and done, neither Bush nor Kerry deserves to be in office. At all.

Take John Kerry for example. First and formost, let's forget the Swifties and MoveOn. Neither of them apply here. What matters is the man and what he proposes. I have reviewed what he proposes, I've read what his website says he wants to do, I've listened to the news media, and I'm finally prepared to say this man is a complete @$$.

What did it for me was listening once more to his testimony before the U.S. Senate in 1971. Now, it would seem to me, given that My Lai occured in 1968, (if I'm not mistaken), that any man who confessed to that august body in 1971 claiming that he personally participated in war crimes who was not arrested and charged that day, either had to have very powerful connections that provided some immunity, (which would indicate to me that Kerry could not be trusted), or it had to be said that the Senate knew they were being fed a load of bullsh**, (which would indicate to me that Kerry could not be trusted.)

Add to this that he now says that most of the tax cuts the Bush Administration pushed through were a good idea, that he, too, would have gone into Iraq, and that he has some support in his heart for the Patriot Act, and it seems to me this man has nothing really to differentiate himself from Bush, other than the fact that he's not Bush.

What finally did it for me is that the man cannot even approve of a frigging pay raise for American service men and women. Considering that some are actually getting Food Stamps, for God's sake, I'm sorry, but I can't see any excuse for not giving these people a bump in their pay.


Very well said. I can't get over how stupid opposition parties are these days, all trying to compete for the 'middle voter' by being the Lite version of the ruling party. And they wonder why the polls are a dead heat with a large number of people not participating. Have they ever thought of providing an alternative?
 
Did Kerry really not approve of a pay raise for U.S. troops? Where is info on that?

BTW - I think Bush and buddies drastically cut our current and projected pay raises, removed the mandate that pay raises must meet inflation plus a certain percentage until they are more in line with civilian pay, and has drastically cut active duty and veterans benefits. All to pay for his tax cuts and the Iraq war.

FYI - He wanted to further cut active duty and veteran VA Home Loan benefits, but I believe this got so much attention the administration backed off. Yeah, see his buddies in the insurance industry don't like that VA loans don't require mortage insurance. Most lenders, and some states, require that you have mortage insurance so this is a sizable loss for the insurance industry. Bush and Co. were quite ready to sell out our benefits to make their buddies a few more bucks... until VA groups and others made a big stink about it.
 
I share your frustrations with the lot of them but I think there is a good reason for ABB ... and that is the Supreme Court. All of the current Supremes cannot last another 4 years and when I look at Bush's court nominations, I shudder to the core. Pryor, for example, would substitute the bible for the constitutioin if he could. OK, thats an exaggeration, but not by much.
 
If you're worried about the Supreme Court, it's your vote for senator rather than president that matters. In the current political climate there's no way in hell that any hard-core (right or left wing) judge is going to get through the Senate confirmation process. The Senate can't even agree on district level federal judges at the moment much less a Supreme Court nominee.

As peptoabysmal pointed out above, regardless of who wins the next presidental election, the country will keep rolling along as usual. I think the people that forecast doom over the possible election of either candidate are leaning a bit woo-woo myself.

In fact, although I will not be voting for him, one positive that could come from a Kerry win is that the government would be grid-locked and less able than usual to muck things up.
 
Don't forget, the number of people who really have died so you can have your vote. Kind of seems ungrateful to just throw it away. (Guilt trip, I know, but the vote is one of the most precious things we have.)
 
" We live on the Left Coast and polls close on the east coast first. Our votes don't matter... it's all over except the fat lady singing by the time the polls close here."

Don't worry...the media has again faithully promised that *this* time they will NOT broadcast that the election is a done deal while polling places in other time zones are still open.

In other news, Lucy promises that *this* time she will NOT snatch the football away from Charlie Brown
 
Lemmings are smarter than we are. They throw themselves into the North Sea rather than put up with the sh** we do.
Actually, lemmings don't plunge into the sea to their watery deaths. That was just a fraud of a documentary, but people still believe lemmings commit mass suicide to this day.

(There's some irony and a message about fooling the public and repeating a lie enough times in there somewhere, but I haven't the energy to suss it out nor apply it to today's circumstances.)
 
rdtjr said:
Did Kerry really not approve of a pay raise for U.S. troops? Where is info on that?

BTW - I think Bush and buddies drastically cut our current and projected pay raises, removed the mandate that pay raises must meet inflation plus a certain percentage until they are more in line with civilian pay, and has drastically cut active duty and veterans benefits. All to pay for his tax cuts and the Iraq war.

FYI - He wanted to further cut active duty and veteran VA Home Loan benefits, but I believe this got so much attention the administration backed off. Yeah, see his buddies in the insurance industry don't like that VA loans don't require mortage insurance. Most lenders, and some states, require that you have mortage insurance so this is a sizable loss for the insurance industry. Bush and Co. were quite ready to sell out our benefits to make their buddies a few more bucks... until VA groups and others made a big stink about it.

Heard about that one, too. Another reason I can't stand Bush. Demanding addtional sacrifices from those who have already sacrificed so much already.

All that happened when the VA was made a cabinet level post was another layer of bureaucracy was added, which made it easier to ignore the Vets who were getting screwed.

As to Kerry and the pay raises, I'll need to look it up again, but as I recall reading, he has yet to vote to approve a pay raise for our troops. While this may be an exaggeration on the part of the author who wrote the piece, I question whether it's much of one.
 
Just do the VOTE AGAINST thing tween Bush n Kerry. Your already doing it. It doesnt sound like you care for the 3rd parties either.

Find who you hate the most and vote against them. Spite is fun!!!


I think once the debates roll around we can get a clearer picture of who will do what and whats the difference.
 
rdtjr said:
FYI - He wanted to further cut active duty and veteran VA Home Loan benefits, but I believe this got so much attention the administration backed off. Yeah, see his buddies in the insurance industry don't like that VA loans don't require mortage insurance. Most lenders, and some states, require that you have mortage insurance so this is a sizable loss for the insurance industry. Bush and Co. were quite ready to sell out our benefits to make their buddies a few more bucks... until VA groups and others made a big stink about it.
That is a bit unfair. Requirments for Mortgage insurance are not there simply to make money for the insurance companies. Does everything have to be viewed in the worst possible light?
 
I just want to add that I support the notion of having an election based upon merit. We haven't gotten to that stage yet. Pretty much all we have is that each side wants everyone to think that the other side is a bunch of jerks.

Some folks are saying: "Bush has no choice but to sling mud. He won't run on his record because he can't!" Nonsense. Bush can and should run on his record. So far, I have not seen him doing so, and this is distressing.

Kerry has at least tried to put forth some proposals on taxation, economic development, foreign relations, health care. This is risky, because all the opponent has to do is crap all over your ideas without offering any better ideas of his own (which is pretty much what has happened so far). Some of Kerry's ideas are good, and some are questionable (to put it mildly). But Kerry is trapped. If he admits that he made a mistake, the opponents will trumpet that fact until election day.

Unfortunately, Bush is in the same trap. His folks feel that they CAN'T admit mistakes. And that makes the Bush camp look foolish, because the Bush administation is responsible for some serious errors in judgment.

As a result of the campaign so far, I already know that the candidates are less than perfect men. I am looking forward to the debates, when I can finally start seeing the merits of the candidates.
 

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