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Thomas-Jung personality type indicator

thaiboxerken

Penultimate Amazing
thaiboxerken
Joined
Sep 17, 2001
Messages
34,530
So, I recieved e-mail today pertaining to a job interview. I wasn't really looking, but someone was interested in my monster resume. I decided to read it, I mean, I can always go to a better job offer. I'm not going to interview, pay is way low and I don't care to live in the red-state jesusland.

Anyway, here is the editted letter.

While searching the Monster database, we came across your resume. Your
background is of interest to us.
The exclusive O.E.M. service provider for the industry leader in emergency and
standby power transfer solutions has an exciting career opportunity for an
Engineering Service Representative/Technician...<snip info about technical requirments and such>.

Compensation: Base salary $42,000 to $45,000 plus projected overtime of $10,000
to $20,000 per year, plus full benefits including Profit Sharing and Year End
Bonus PLUS a company van and laptop computer. First Year On Target Earnings
$55,000 to $65,000 plus.

Location: Birmingham, AL

While your background is of interest to us, to consider you for this position,
you need to complete a simple 10-minute exercise. Please go to www.tjti.com or
to the backup website: www.freetjti.com and click on FREE TEST.

After completing the exercise, please put your name on each page and fax them,
along with another copy of your RESUME, to 1-908-636-2552. If you have any
questions, please use the Live-Chat Customer Support on our website.

I look forward to your early response.

Cordially,


Paul Scharff
Senior Analyst
Thomas-Jung, Inc.
Click to expand...


Anyway, it looked mundane enough to me. However, when I clicked on the links, I was taken to a weird test. The test consists of copying a few paragraphs onto unlined paper twice, once with handwriting and the other with print. The Thomas-Jung site claims to be able to categorize personalities based on this test alone. I have to wonder how. Perhaps they think graphology is a scientific process. I wonder if these people can stake a claim for the JREF prize.

I'm going to e-mail Randi.

I've already e-mailed Paul Scharff and asked if graphology is their method of procedure.
 
I'm tempted to write this:

"You believe you can tell my personality type by the way I copy your paragraph? That's a hoot! I guess by writing this instead I've proven something about my personality: I'm not so easily fooled!"

and mail it to their address.
 
Don't cue the weird music yet, but

Is the company really called Thomas-Jung? I ask because old C. G. Jung himself was at one time deeply into personality types. At first he used a two-axis classification, then elaborated on that, then elaborated some more as he continued to study the mind – and finally chucked the whole concept as meaningless. (He was capable of that kind of honesty, whatever else you might say about him.)
 
Apparenly, you're not the first to encounter this. A Google search turned up the following cached entry from Wikipedia:

A request has been made on Wikipedia for this article to be deleted
This request is being discussed to form a consensus whether this is, or could be, an article appropriate for Wikipedia. Please see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/this page's entry on the votes for deletion page for details. Also see possible outlets for removed articles. If you feel deletion is not justified by Wikipedia deletion policy you may vote against its deletion. Please do not remove this notice or blank this page while the question is being considered. However, you are welcome to continue editing this article and improve it, especially if you can address the concerns of those who believe the article should be deleted./div > Thomas-Jung Personality Type Indicator: most people learn about this "human resources" tool by receiving an unsolicited email from an entity that got their email address from Monster.com, or a similar online job-finding database.
It appears that everyone--except, possibly, the company that offers it--agrees the Thomas-Jung Personality Type Indicator is a hoax of some sort. The email sent will go something like this:

While searching the Monster database, we came across your resume. Your background is of interest to us. One of the nation's leading software companies is currently seeking a ________ for their ______ division in ________.

Following the position description it'll say:

While your background is of interest to us, to consider you for this position, you will need to take the Thomas-Jung Type Indicator (TJTI). This simple 10-minute exercise will determine your personality type. To retrieve a free copy, please go to www.TJTI.com and click on the link that reads: "If you've been asked to take the Thomas-Jung Type Indicator for an employer, click here." After completing the TJTI, please fax it back to me at _______, along with another copy of your resume. I look forward to your early response. Cordially, _________ (name not located anywhere on the web)

The link (http://www.TJTI.com) is to a bizarre handwriting analysis test. The "testee" is instructed to copy 4 paragraphs of text onto 2 or more pieces of white, unlined paper, twice: "once in your handwriting and once in your printing."

The first 3 paragraphs are quotes from JFK , Mark Twain , and David Ogilvy . The final paragraph to copy is as follows:

I am very happy today. My mother is very beautiful. I see the opportunity clearly. 12 + 36 = 48 and 9,000-75 = 8,950.

If one were to believe that a legitimate company was interested in hiring you--but it was necessary first to take this test--one might wonder how/whether to address the incorrect math problem and misspellings in the quotes. But it's not legitimate. So no need to ponder it.

A few blogs since 2002 chronicle people's experiences receiving the email directing them to the test, for example: http://www.journalscape.com/kenny/2002-09-04-14:16 and http://hr-monkeys.blogspot.com/

Another blog offers a sample, appropriately snarky, response to the "employer" who sent the email: http://www.jobfairy.com/weblog/2002/20021229.html

Regarding the Thomas-Jung Type Indicator, Don't Feed the Monkeys blog wonders whether jobseekers are "doing research before faxing off their signatures along with enough personal information to enable identity theft?" http://hr-monkeys.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_hr-monkeys_archive.html

Nothing yet is online from anyone reporting they took/submitted the test or the aftermath. preview not available. Click the link for more information.
Click to expand...
 
It pains me to think that companies are actually hiring these people. Perhaps I should take the test to get an interview, and then I can tell the company interviewer that I am much more than a technician. I can tell them that I have psychic powers that allow me to see what the problems are from a remote location. I can really do some telecommuting for a job then.
 
I once worked at a major mining company whose HR people used enneagrams...

It really amazes me how some people manage to keep their jobs. If it depended on me, they would have their arses kicked out if they failed to provide me solid evidences that it worked.

And the damn company makes a lot of money, even with this burden...
 
I've lost my handwriting. Practically the only thing I write by hand today is my signature, and a few words on Post-it notes now and then. Everything else is by keyboards of various kinds.

Not that my handwriting was ever all that pretty, but at least it was decipherable. Today, it looks like the work of a demented monkey (make all the jokes you like).

The scariest thing is that I have taken to write letters the way I write them on my Palm pilot.

I seriously doubt the validity of such a test.
 
Any chance they're looking for a sample of your handwriting so they can forge documents in your name?
 
This reminds me of these pop psychologists who profess to be able to tell different personalities by what color lipstick a woman wears, or whether a man combs his hair to the right, left, or parts in the middle.

Example:
If you take one spoon of sugar with your Rice Krispies, you are a warm and loving person who is determined to make the world a better place for all.

If you take two spoons of sugar with your Rice Krispies, you are a psychotic, introverted narcissist who will one day blow a fuse and take out your frustrations on a family member.

Utter crap.
 
For some reason, they haven't responded to my email regarding their method of type-categorizing people.
 
thaiboxerken said:
For some reason, they haven't responded to my email regarding their method of type-categorizing people.
Click to expand...

thaiboxer, I really think this is another Monster scam artist.
 
Perhaps. But I don't find it hard to believe that a real company would fall for this type of scheme, I mean, aren't there companies that use astrology signs as part of their hiring practices?
 
thaiboxerken said:
Perhaps. But I don't find it hard to believe that a real company would fall for this type of scheme, I mean, aren't there companies that use astrology signs as part of their hiring practices?
Click to expand...

I totally think it's possible that this is some kind of woo thing. There are tons of unsubstantiated and unscientific personality tests I've had to take... Walmart gives one, to just throw out an example.

But I watched an ex get burned by a fraud job search from Monster. Monster is an easy way to get a lot of information about a person to use for identity theft. Just be careful of that, Ken. You have a cool avatar and an excellent sense of sarcasm. I'd hate to see some jerks steal from you.
 
I have received two such e-mails over the past year.

The first one was from a legitimate company so I e-mailed them the requested handwriting sample with a note indicating they should see if the linked company will be able to tell that I think their process is crap.

No response.


In the meantime, I e-mailed the tjti customer service folks questioning their validity and engaged in a series of amicable e-mail exchanges. The customer service person kept saying there was hard science backing it up. They changed that to saying most European companies use graphology in HR. Despite my challenges, they never backed off that.

The last e-mail was from this rep saying he bet I believed in the single bullet theory, too.

I ended the exchange due to time constraints, but I keep intending to pick it back up.

Perhaps I'll post the whole thing here.
 
There's all kinds of psychology stuff I'd label 'woo' that companies use. I have not seen or heard of this one, it seems intended to look similar to the Keirsey Temperament Sorter.

Using things as hiring criteria is much more ethically suspect than just using them as tools to help people you've already hired play better together.
 
The phone number "(908) 636-2552" is a Bernardsville, NJ based phone number and the registered carrier is Paetec Communications, Inc. - NJ. However, due to number portability, some numbers have been transferred to a new service provider other than the registered carrier.
 
delphi_ote said:
I'd hate to see some jerks steal from you.
Click to expand...

Oh, I think I've become much more skeptical about such matters, especially since I bought the timeshare 4 years ago.

Anyone want to "own" a vacation? I'm selling.
 
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