This is what pathological skeptics believe

It always amazes me how otherwise apparently intelligent individuals can try to defend idiocy...
 
Yup, that stuff sounds exactly like how woo-woos think. Wait, pathological *skeptics* think like that?! I have a feeling that the guy who wrote that is going to be killed at a zebra crossing.
 
The scientists react not
with pragmatism and a wish to get to the bottom of things, but instead
with the same tactics religious groups use to suppress heretics: hostile
emotional attacks, circular reasoning, dehumanizing of the 'enemy',
extreme closed-mindedness, intellectually dishonest reasoning, underhanded
debating tactics, negative gossip, and all manner of name-calling and
character assassination.

Projection... it's not just for movie theatres or mapmakers anymore.
 
I personally have never claimed to reject any theories about the paranormal, UFO's or anything else. Well, let me modify that: some of them I reject simply because there is a very real scientific reason for the illusion (the dowsing phenomenon, eg). And I reject some PRACTITIONERS of certain paranormal philosophies who are obviously frauds. But as a skeptic, I'm not here to say, "there's no afterlife" or "if you're a Christian you're insane." Because, of course, how do I know?

Certainly I have met skeptics who tend to call names and make unfounded generalizations. But notice that the writer of this article isn't providing specific examples. Is there some specific piece of compelling evidence that the skeptical community has rejected that should give us all pause?

I do believe that any skeptic who says a theory is stupid before investigating is stupid himself. But I, like most of the people on this board, am not rejecting THEORIES. I reject non-evidence. Take the NDE thing, for example. There is obviously evidence that a certain type of phenomenon that can be classified as NDe does indeed exist. But there has thus far been no way to prove that it is not merely a psychological phenomenon. Since almost all NDE's occur in serious emergency situations, there really isn't any way to create controlled study (to be fair, I don't really find the attempts to recreate the psychological effects of NDE through drugs, etc. all that compelling either).

So while I think that the article does describe some of the less open-minded folks out there, to claim that critical thinking is some kind of pathology is silly.
 
cedric_owl said:


I do believe that any skeptic who says a theory is stupid before investigating is stupid himself.

... so show me that such a skeptic exists.

This is becoming a rather common litany on this board, the complaints about the closed-minded skeptics "out there" who reflexively reject authoritative evidence of the paranormal. But you know what? No one -- not one person -- has been able to provide a verified sighting of such a beast.

It appears that everyone -- how did you phrase it -- "I have met skeptics who tend to call names and make unfounded generalizations." Yeah, right. I'm starting to think that these pathological skeptics are about as real as the friend of the friend of the friend who can predict lottery numbers, but of course doesn't do it often 'cause she's above all this, like, materialistic culture stuff.
 
Why am I not surprised to see not a single link or reference to an actual person taking any of these positions?
 
drkitten,

As much as we may hate it, "skeptic" is a word that encompasses anyone who "doubts accepted beliefs."

Ayn Rand was very much a skeptic, and in my personal opinion she created a wrongheaded cult of "ideas" that is itself a ripe target for skepticism, completely disregarding the rules of logic and pawning her fraudulent pseudo-economic theories on the world.

Or how about Matt Taibbi, resident moron at the New York Press (a weekly newspaper in NYC), whose skepticism of Christianity and middle-American mores manifests itself as rants about how we should kill all midwesterners and tasteless jokes about the death of religious leaders.

Every point-of-view has its uneducated representatives, no matter which way you cut it.
 
Pathological skepticism doesn’t exist? I reckon a pathological sKeptic might not realize when they are suffering from this mental disorder. ;)

Take the quick questionnaire, here are the symptoms. ;)

- You instinctively know from just reading that some new paranormal claim isn’t true. You feel angry, you don’t feel doubt.
- You believe extraordinary paranormal claims requires extraordinary evidence.... yet trust an extraordinary accusation of paranormal fraud only requires anecdotal rumour.
- You have total faith in the opinion of CSICOP, an organization set up to oppose paranormal claims with nothing but something else explanations..
You believe paranormal belief is of grave danger to humanity . You petition to stop paranormal claims in the media to protect the public from making their own minds up ….
- You believe a scientist who claims a real paranormal effect is an error prone idiot and a scientist who finds nothing paranormal was unquestionably correct. You support peer reviewed journals only publishing correct outcomes to prevent funding for ‘pathological science’
- You believe the paranormal (i.e. contradictory to normal established scientific principles) must follow normal scientific principles or it cannot exist.


Fortunately no one in this forum thinks like the above. ;)
 
Open Mind said:
Pathological skepticism doesn’t exist? I reckon a pathological sKeptic might not realize when they are suffering from this mental disorder. ;)

Take the quick questionnaire, here are the symptoms. ;)

- You instinctively know from just reading that some new paranormal claim isn’t true. You feel angry, you don’t feel doubt.
- You believe extraordinary paranormal claims requires extraordinary evidence.... yet trust an extraordinary accusation of paranormal fraud only requires anecdotal rumour.
- You have total faith in the opinion of CSICOP, an organization set up to oppose paranormal claims with nothing but something else explanations..
You believe paranormal belief is of grave danger to humanity . You petition to stop paranormal claims in the media to protect the public from making their own minds up ….
- You believe a scientist who claims a real paranormal effect is an error prone idiot and a scientist who finds nothing paranormal was unquestionably correct. You support peer reviewed journals only publishing correct outcomes to prevent funding for ‘pathological science’
- You believe the paranormal (i.e. contradictory to normal established scientific principles) must follow normal scientific principles or it cannot exist.


Fortunately no one in this forum thinks like the above. ;)


What qualifies as "an extraordinary accusation"?
Are you just throwing out words because it makes you feel good in the tummy?


Paranormal claims can be of "grave danger" to individuals... people die without proper medical care... hence the "grave" part of the danger.
 
Open Mind said:
- You instinctively know from just reading that some new paranormal claim isn’t true.
Nothing wrong with that. Instinctively I do indeed know that all paranormal claims are wrong. Of course, instinct itself can be wrong.

In this case though, instinct has never failed me.
You feel angry, you don’t feel doubt.
Anger is a natural response to persistent idiocy. As long as we don't let it cloud our judgement, it's not a problem.
- You believe extraordinary paranormal claims requires extraordinary evidence.... yet trust an extraordinary accusation of paranormal fraud only requires anecdotal rumour.
What extraordinary accusations of fraud are you talking about?

We have actual, cut-and-dried, documented cases of fraud.
- You have total faith in the opinion of CSICOP, an organization set up to oppose paranormal claims with nothing but something else explanations..
I haven't really had anything to do with CSICOP, but there's nothing at all wrong with "something else explanations".

It works like this.

The paranormalist claims a paranormal event. The "something else explainer" shows how it could have happened naturally. Now it's up to the paranormalist to show that the "something else explanation" is wrong. (Or at least, less plausible than the paranormal explanation.)
You believe paranormal belief is of grave danger to humanity .
Stupidity is dangerous. However, humanity is surprisingly resilient and has managed to muddle through despite the truly vast quantities of stupidity that are produced every single day.
You petition to stop paranormal claims in the media to protect the public from making their own minds up ….
Who, exactly, does this?

On the other hand, suggesting that laws against provably fraudulent claims be enforced, that's different.
- You believe a scientist who claims a real paranormal effect is an error prone idiot and a scientist who finds nothing paranormal was unquestionably correct.
It's a good rule of thumb. So far, it's always been accurate. Well, some of the scientists claiming paranormal effects have been frauds as well as idiots.
You support peer reviewed journals only publishing correct outcomes to prevent funding for ‘pathological science’
Uh, what?

Yes, it's preferable that peer reviewed journals only publish papers that are correct, but that doesn't always work.

There's no such thing as a "correct outcome", though. The result of an experiment is what it is.
- You believe the paranormal (i.e. contradictory to normal established scientific principles) must follow normal scientific principles or it cannot exist.
Scientific principles apply to research, not to events. So this statement is complete nonsense.
 
Thankfully, there are some real (methodological) skeptics around, not only "the fanatical ones". Yes, I do believe some "skeptics" just follow the trend, denying a priori, for example, some hardcore materialists certainly fall in this category.
 
Oh, goodie, another sample of psychobabble! Let's translate these into English, shall we.

- You instinctively know from just reading that some new paranormal claim isn’t true. You feel angry, you don’t feel doubt.

Means: You have seen a lot of paranormal claims, and the non-paranormal explanations for them. When you see the same claim repeated, you are inclined to point out the explanations, which often baffles the claimant that thinks the claim is "new".


- You believe extraordinary paranormal claims requires extraordinary evidence.... yet trust an extraordinary accusation of paranormal fraud only requires anecdotal rumour.

Means: You know that fraud exists and that there is nothing paranormal about it. When you see someone who claims paranormal powers are being accused for fraud, you are more ready to accept this than that the claim is real, since there is nothing extraordinary about commiting fraud.


- You have total faith in the opinion of CSICOP, an organization set up to oppose paranormal claims with nothing but something else explanations..

Means: You do sometimes read stuff from CSICOP, an organisation set up to provide actual explanations of claims of paranormal phenomena.


- You believe paranormal belief is of grave danger to humanity . You petition to stop paranormal claims in the media to protect the public from making their own minds up ….

Means: You believe that belief in the paranormal can have adverse effects, because it has been shown to cause people to harm themselves unecessarily, to give money to known frauds, to avoid proper medical treatment, etc. You petititon to stop media presenting known cases of fraud as legitimate, because that is deceiving the public.


- You believe a scientist who claims a real paranormal effect is an error prone idiot and a scientist who finds nothing paranormal was unquestionably correct. You support peer reviewed journals only publishing correct outcomes to prevent funding for ‘pathological science’

Means: You believe that a real scientist that claims a paranormal effect may or may not be a good scientist, may or may not be intelligent, but does believe in something of which there is no real evidence of existing, despite how it could easily be tested for, if it existed. You decide to read up on the scientist and his claims, to see if he has a point, or if he's just another Dr. Schwartz or "Dr." Kent Howind.


- You believe the paranormal (i.e. contradictory to normal established scientific principles) must follow normal scientific principles or it cannot exist.

Means: You believe that if a paranormal claim is actually proven, that simply means that very much of we today think we know about the universe is wrong. Until that happens, you believe that there are non-paranormal explanations for all the paranormal claims you've so far studied.



Fortunately no one in this forum thinks like the above. ;)

Some people on this forum may think like the above after the translation; but that is for them to decide, not me. You are of course right that nobody on the forum thinks like the above before translation.

And after this poor attempt of for the umpteenth time trying to giving skeptics false opinions, Open Mind has once again demonstrated the false advertising of his nickname.

And by the way, care to provide examples for us? As in showing for example an actual skeptic claiming that he has total faith in CSICOP? Or that there has ever been an extraordinary accusation of fraud?
 
Bodhi Dharma Zen said:
Thankfully, there are some real (methodological) skeptics around, not only "the fanatical ones". Yes, I do believe some "skeptics" just follow the trend, denying a priori, for example, some hardcore materialists certainly fall in this category.

Like PixyMisa? Most of the people on here are like him; they just are not quite so vocal and straightforward about it.

There are some "real (methodological) skeptics" as you put it eg many parapsychologists, but they are outnumbered by the extreme "skeptics".
 
Interesting Ian said:
Like PixyMisa? Most of the people on here are like him; they just are not quite so vocal and straightforward about it.

There are some "real (methodological) skeptics" as you put it eg many parapsychologists, but they are outnumbered by the extreme "skeptics".

PixyMisa's not the most diplomatic one out there, but "No." is perfectly acceptable default position, considering that the people who get the "No." treatement are usually the sort who make assertions without any evidence whatsoever.

I have yet to meet one of these "extreme" "skeptics". Closest I've ever come to them tend to be actors playing a part, like I was in the topic when I leaned toward flaming.
 

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