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The Ultimate Unstoppable Chi Warrior

rocketdodger

Philosopher
rocketdodger
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
6,946
Hi everyone I am new. I am intersted in "chi" as a visualization tool to unlock the dormant potential in the human body.

I am interested in discussions regarding what people can get their bodies to do (either using chi or without) that joe average would consider amazing by virtue of how extraordinary it seems.

Examples are of course the normal chi feats that are proven, such as blood flow control, pain negation, and body strengthening. But I am also looking for amazing data nuggets such as "If a person lands perfectly, using all available muscles to dampen the forces, they can withstand a 10 story fall landing on their feet unharmed." (Which is true, give or take a few stories).

I am interested because I am an avid martial artist and would like to make a compendium of amazing accomplishments that we can get our bodies to do without resorting to any supernatural notions.
 
Whoaa there, little buckaroo! You need to show that chi exists at all before we can get into what can be done with it.
 
rocketdodger said:
Examples are of course the normal chi feats that are proven, such as blood flow control, pain negation, and body strengthening. But I am also looking for amazing data nuggets such as "If a person lands perfectly, using all available muscles to dampen the forces, they can withstand a 10 story fall landing on their feet unharmed." (Which is true, give or take a few stories).
Click to expand...

Okay Goku thanks for the heads-up.
 
Oh yeah, and please define what exact flavor of "chi" you are talking about, so that we can all be on the same page here.
 
There's a cool dude named Thaiboxerken on these forums that I think might know a good deal about this topic.

I remember following a link he once gave, about half a year ago, to a karate forum, in which the topic was being discussed about an elderly man who could knock down, one-after-the-other, karate black-belts with only one hand. Supposedly using "chi" to do so. Reading his posts about why there was nothing paranormal about the act, and then seeing their replies was quite entertaining :D

If he doesn't see this thread to reply to it, you could probably send him a PM.
 
Okay the thread topic might be misleading.

I don't think there is anything paranormal going on here. I just think "chi" is a useful visualization.

What I wanted to discuss was, regardless of whether chi is supposedly involved or not, the amazing things that the body is capable of, from a scientific standpoint.

I didn't specify any flavor of chi because I am interested in all flavors. And even if the supposed chi had nothing to do with it, I am still interested in amazing feats.

It is my opinion that if most people knew how powerful the body can be (proven scientifically) they would change their opinions on alot of things, certainly on the martial arts.

Thank you for calling me goku! But really, if a person could control their muscles perfectly so as to dampen the forces of impact right to the point where the muscle would tear if pushed any further, the human body COULD withstand a 10 story fall. Now, obviously, I can't do that, nobody can, because you would need computer reflexes. But I am just saying that it IS possible based upon the properties of our bones and tissues. And it is a perfect example of what I want to discuss. IF a person could somehow gain complete control of their body.... what could they do?
 
Qi might very well be a useful visualization...
and still have nothing to do with what passes for martial arts today.

I think we had a thread in Science a while back asking if there were any dependable documentation of the 'Mom lifts car off baby' sort of amazing feats...did anyone ever come up with a verifiable source?
 
crimresearch said:
Qi might very well be a useful visualization...
and still have nothing to do with what passes for martial arts today.

I think we had a thread in Science a while back asking if there were any dependable documentation of the 'Mom lifts car off baby' sort of amazing feats...did anyone ever come up with a verifiable source?
Click to expand...

El Greco came up with some numbers.
 
rocketdodger said:
Hi everyone I am new. I am intersted in "chi" as a visualization tool to unlock the dormant potential in the human body.

I am interested in discussions regarding what people can get their bodies to do (either using chi or without) that joe average would consider amazing by virtue of how extraordinary it seems.

Examples are of course the normal chi feats that are proven, such as blood flow control, pain negation, and body strengthening. But I am also looking for amazing data nuggets such as "If a person lands perfectly, using all available muscles to dampen the forces, they can withstand a 10 story fall landing on their feet unharmed." (Which is true, give or take a few stories).

I am interested because I am an avid martial artist and would like to make a compendium of amazing accomplishments that we can get our bodies to do without resorting to any supernatural notions.
Click to expand...

You might be better off at http://www.bullshido.net/
 
rocketdodger said:
Hi everyone I am new. I am intersted in "chi" as a visualization tool to unlock the dormant potential in the human body.

I am interested in discussions regarding what people can get their bodies to do (either using chi or without) that joe average would consider amazing by virtue of how extraordinary it seems.

Examples are of course the normal chi feats that are proven, such as blood flow control, pain negation, and body strengthening. But I am also looking for amazing data nuggets such as "If a person lands perfectly, using all available muscles to dampen the forces, they can withstand a 10 story fall landing on their feet unharmed." (Which is true, give or take a few stories).

I am interested because I am an avid martial artist and would like to make a compendium of amazing accomplishments that we can get our bodies to do without resorting to any supernatural notions.
Click to expand...

If you really think Chi is that powerful...why don't you enter the UFC or Pride? I'm sure you can demonstrate the unlocked human potential in yourself by withstanding a few hits from Vitor Belfort or Chuck Liddell?
 
Thanks for the link geni, but that site and others like it aren't what I am looking for.

The problem with "realistic" martial arts sites like that is all the people there don't have much imagination. If you ask them what they think of hanging yourself every day to build up defenses against strangulation, they will tell you its a waste of time. For those people, if something is difficult and extraordinary, they don't go for it.

If I told them I wanted to be able to smash rocks with my bare hands they would first ask "why" and then tell me "it would be pointless if you could do that because it probably won't help you win a fight in the real world." Who cares? I am not interested in winning fights. I am interested in finding out just how far others have been able to push their bodies, so I know how far I might be able to push mine if I try.

So I figured I would come here and at least ask you guys what you know or if you have links to sites with hard data on the subject.

Shaolin monks can have bricks broken over their temples and not get hurt. How? Trained aikido practitioners can jump off of rooftops and roll perfectly upon landing to avoid getting hurt. How? Remember that buddhist monk who burned himself alive in vietnam without even flinching? Well I want to know how he did that, and the "how" about these kinds of things. I don't think its supernatural. Indeed, its better if it ISNT supernatural, because then its a testimony to just how much we can do if we put our minds to it.

I just get nowhere googling (it is such a waste of time) and I thought that you guys would probably have a large repetoire of examples to give me.
 
and right after I post that, I see what sf108 wrote... a perfect example of why I do NOT post on those bullshido type sites!

There are all sorts of comments that I could make to fight back and defend myself sf108 but I am so tired of doing that, I just don't want to anymore. Please don't bring up "try it out in UFC or PRIDE" on this thread because it has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am not talking about trying to win fights in a closed ring,unarmed, wearing pads on my hands, and having to obey unfair rule sets that give certain types of fighters huge advantages over others.

I AM talking about exploring the potential of our bodies, mainly with regards to how strong we can become and how much damage/force we can deal, withstand, and heal.

And for your information, pain tolerance and body strength play a huge role in NHB type fighting. You must have missed the part of my original post where I said "either using chi or without."
 
rocketdodger said:
But really, if a person could control their muscles perfectly so as to dampen the forces of impact right to the point where the muscle would tear if pushed any further, the human body COULD withstand a 10 story fall. Now, obviously, I can't do that, nobody can, because you would need computer reflexes. But I am just saying that it IS possible based upon the properties of our bones and tissues.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of that. Are you sure? Do you have any numbers to associate with "the properties of bones and tissues"? I'd like to compare those statistics to the statisitics associated with falling 10 stories.
 
I am pretty sure. It was this monumental calculation that my physics class did in high school. Basically we figured out the forces that would be exerted by the fall, and then using the various strengths of bone, connective tissue, muscle, etc, determined that if a person could use all of his lower body perfectly they could dampen the force and come out unharmed (but probably very very sore). And we didn't even consider going into a roll, which would help alot.

If you really think about it, it doesn't seem that farfetched does it? If one could somehow control their muscles to absorb as much energy as possible, up to but not past the point of tearing, and do this over a certain distance of limb retraction (like landing from a jump), they could keep their bones from breaking and their brain from getting too much deceleration at once. Now, I don't think this is actually possible, because a landing from such a height would happen too fast for a person to even consider all this stuff. But physically, it is possible I think (of course I was a high school kid back then, so I could have been crazy).

I can't repeat the calculation now, that is one of the reasons I am here!! I want to know the numbers concerning how much a body can take before it breaks. I have googled this subject exhaustively and found just extraneous things, so I came here, in case any of you know of a good resource. After all, nothing beats good old human communication when it comes to learning, right!
 
rocketdodger said:
Shaolin monks can have bricks broken over their temples and not get hurt.
Click to expand...
That's nothing! Shinto priests can have breeze blocks broken over their pagodas...

... oh, wait, I see what you mean ...
 
rocketdodger said:
Shaolin monks can have bricks broken over their temples and not get hurt. How? Trained aikido practitioners can jump off of rooftops and roll perfectly upon landing to avoid getting hurt. How?
Click to expand...
Perfect muscle control.

Remember that buddhist monk who burned himself alive in vietnam without even flinching?
Click to expand...
Meditation to block the pain. There are various kinds of mental stats which allow a person to ignore pain.


Mom lifts car off baby example is a explainable. In live-or-death situations nutrients and oxygen is diverted to more essential organs and processes. Also the body's limitators are shutdown. These limitators prevent you from producing enough force that you WILL hurt yourself. It can be safely said that the mom would have torn muscles and fractured bones.
 
I saw the Shaolin monk troupe on Eurosport a few years back and was very disappointed. Based on the tricks I could spot I would suspect that they used poured hot water then ice water on the blocks to make them fragile.
One that usually gets me giggling is people showing their amazing power smashing paving slabs supported at the ends. Uh, guys, you ever laid a slab? Any idea why you have to be very careful to place a thick smooth layer of sand below it.
As regards visualisation, I regard Qi as being centrifugal force to peng/kung's centripetal force. People sometimes find it easier to throw a good hook if they picture qi flowing up rather than considering the conversion of angular to linear momentum.

For some tips on faking google in groups on "Bill knittle". He used to post good stufff on rec.m-a.
For any magicians reading this, see if you can get a book called "Body magic" or " body tricks" - someone posted excerpts from this on a MA list a while back and some of the magic tricks worked using some of the same ideas as some internal martial arts. The "magnetic girl" was one described.
 
rocketdodger said:
I am pretty sure. It was this monumental calculation that my physics class did in high school. Basically we figured out the forces that would be exerted by the fall, and then using the various strengths of bone, connective tissue, muscle, etc, determined that if a person could use all of his lower body perfectly they could dampen the force and come out unharmed (but probably very very sore). And we didn't even consider going into a roll, which would help alot.
Click to expand...
So the only actual evidence that someone could survive a ten story drop is a calculaion that you yourself did in high school?
that's hardly conclusive - you could have made any number of errors of asumption to start with.

If you really think about it, it doesn't seem that farfetched does it? If one could somehow control their muscles to absorb as much energy as possible, up to but not past the point of tearing, and do this over a certain distance of limb retraction (like landing from a jump), they could keep their bones from breaking and their brain from getting too much deceleration at once. Now, I don't think this is actually possible, because a landing from such a height would happen too fast for a person to even consider all this stuff. But physically, it is possible I think (of course I was a high school kid back then, so I could have been crazy).
Click to expand...
Well maybe we can attempt a quick calculation now.
10 stories would be approximately 25 metres.
So an object falling would take
2.25 seconds
So would be travelling 22.5 m/second when they hit the ground (just under 50mph)
So the question is, firstly, can the body take deceleration of 22.5m/s to 0 over a space of the length of your bent legs, and absorb all that kinetic energy entirely with tendons, muscles and bones.

I'l have to get back to this in a bit as I'm at work.
 
Additional note - I work 13 stories up - I just looked out of the window from the perspective of someone about to fall in the region of that distance.

This just cannot in any way be done. Not even close.

Never mind no damage - you would almost certainly die.

You have to remember that so much nonsense is talked about with regard to Chi and Martial Arts abilities.

All these stories invariably turn out to just be stories and good performance.

If you have 'calculated' that this ten story undamaged fall is possible then I suggest you read the link in my sig about the bumble bee. It also concerns a situation where incorrect initial models and assumptions have yielded an incorrect conclusion.

Let's face it 50mph is quite a speed to be hitting anything. Look at what happens to the front of a car when it has an impact at that speed - and your body is not made of steel with carefully designed crumple zones.

Rocketdodger I'm afraid to say that if you attempt to put together this amazing list, you may find that in reality it won't have that many amazing abilities on it.

The human body is in many ways quite fragile, and no amount of martial arts training can do much to alter internal organ composition. At best you can learn to apply force better, block pain and toughen skin and, to a certain extent bones.

You'll note these matial artists don't smash actual rocks - they smash particularly shaped objects with known stress points like bricks and breeze blocks. There are very good reasons fo this.

Martial Arts just aren't quite as close to super powers as is often claimed.
 
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