The ugly truth about believers of TV psychics

[Brattus]

First off I would like to state that I am not referring to the desperate people who's loved ones are missing.
These people are leaving no stone unturned and I would do the same thing if I were in their position.
These people however make up only a very small percentage of the overall believers in TV psychics.
I will go so far as to say that half of those desperate people don't really believe, they are just trying anything they can and who can blame them.

Now, the reason I am starting this thread is because I have read over and over again about how these believers are mere innocent victims of evil people.
I have even read post that equate these believers with victims of street muggers.

Sylvia Browne and her like are no doubt heartless media and money whores. As well as liars on a massive life long scale.

BUT!

They are not thieves! If they were they would all be sitting in jail.
The believers not only willing give their money to the "psychics", they contact the "psychics" to give them their money. Hardly a street mugging.

These believers are also not just gullible or foolish. They are active participants in the lies.
Through the money and hard work of the believers there remains a large audience in the media for these silly babbling idiots better known as TV psychics.
Take away her fan base and ol' Sylvia would be babbling about spirit guides to her poodles in the little living room of her trailer home.

The only thing the TV psychics really do is find a media source to spread their lies.
Most people that hear just chuckle about how stupid the whole psychic thing is. Others make a conscious decision to believe the lies they hear because they like the way the lies sound.

They make another conscious decision not to do any kind of fact finding research on the lies they like to listen to.

They make yet another conscious decision about how much they are going to fund and participate in the lies.
Whether they will buy just one book or buy all of the same book with a different title and cover on each.
Whether they will just pay the $700 for a 20 minute phone call or go to a seminar or both.

Through the never ending funding of these believers they make themselves shareholders in this company of lies.

Through their babbling about how awesome their TV psychic of choice is they help to spread the lies and keep the lies alive becoming liars themselves.

It is so easy to focus only on the TV psychic and place all the blame on them alone.
While demanding respect and understanding for their believers.

I think that until these believers OWN their participation not only in the lies told by the "psychic" but the lies told by themselves.
Until they OWN the responsibilities of the harm those lies caused others than no respect or understanding should be given.

Because until they OWN their participation and funding of the TV psychic they are as bad as the TV psychic is.

Just because they lost money by giving it away freely to the TV psychic does not excuse their responsibility in the damage done.

 

[Reno]

Brat, do you have a constructive solution to offer? Because shouting nyah nyah you suck usually doesn't have any positive impact.

 

[Ernie M]

I offer the following opinions:

Most "Psychics," mediums, or other similarly-related titled person you see on TV get off easy. Most are able to avoid criminal or civil liability because some laws are either ambiguous, don't technically apply, or are non-existent. These are some of the circumstances which allow "psychics" to get paid without consequences.

Since "psychics" etc., have not scientifically proven they possess the powers they claim, this to me, is akin to false advertising. There are laws against false advertising.

Depending on the circumstances, some (United States) fortunetellers have been investigated, arrested, charged, and found guilty of theft by deception.

The people you refer to as having to "own" up to their responsibility by seeking "psychic" help, might not be in a proper frame of mind because of many issues; such as grieving, and willing to try any means necessary they might think will give them peace. These individuals need to be protected from themselves, because they are unable to separate fact from fiction, fact from fantasy.

Better consumer laws needed, current ones need to be better enforced.
This is why laws in the U.S. (and everywhere) need to change to be more applicable, more protective for consumers.

 

[Ysidro]

I have the OP on ignore for being a fundamentalist "skeptic" troll. Is there any reason I should stop doing that, guys and girls? Or is he just getting off on calling people stupid and liars again?

 

[Sledge]

I have the OP on ignore for being a fundamentalist "skeptic" troll. Is there any reason I should stop doing that, guys and girls?

My personal opinion is that the ignore function should never be used. Anyone and everyone is capable of saying something insightful and it would be a shame to miss that because of prejudice against them. On the other hand...

Or is he just getting off on calling people stupid and liars again?

'Fraid so.

 

[Ladewig]

Better consumer laws needed, current ones need to be better enforced.
This is why laws in the U.S. (and everywhere) need to change to be more applicable, more protective for consumers.

I could get behind that.

As for the opening post, I'll wait to see what my reaction would be to seeing my four-year-old son die before I criticize the actions of those that have already walked down that path.

 

[Brattus]

Brat, do you have a constructive solution to offer? Because shouting nyah nyah you suck usually doesn't have any positive impact.

Excellent point Reno!

The reason I started the thread wasn't to "get off" on calling anybody anything.
I just felt it needed to be said because coddling the very reason TV psychics have a arena to work in while focusing solely on the individual psychic isn't going to stop anything. That has been shown time and again.

Pretending that the believers have no vested interest in keeping the TV psychics fat rich and happy isn't going to stop anything either.

It amazes me how posters on this forum react to this simple fact.
It's almost along the lines of talking to religious zealots.

This is not 1920. Mr. Lancaster is not Houdini showing up at the séance and exposing the medium for the fraud they are while getting front page headlines about it.
Those days are gone.

Several posters on this forum think I hate these believers or that I am attacking them, nothing could be further from the truth.

The truth is I relate to to them.
Not because I once believed in a TV psychic or anything like that.
But because I wasted a huge chunk of my life on my alcoholism.

I spent years of my life doing the same stupid things over and over again and expecting a different result each and every time.
I was the master of lies, self delusion and of doing stupid things.

But making websites about stopping alcohol distilleries from making their devil fire water or picketing liquor stores who sold it to me was not going to solve my problem.

I had to make a conscious decision about what I was going to do with the products they made and sold.

Just like believers in TV psychics have to make a conscious decision about how they use the information they receive from their TV sets.

If I have anything constructive to add then it would this.
The first thing we have to do is get past the word games.

Smart people do stupid things all the time.
Saying someone is doing something stupid is NOT the same as calling someone stupid.

Every human being on the planet is a liar. It's just a matter of the degree of lying.
So calling someone a liar is a simple statement in fact NOT an insult.

But I think the words must be spoken to open the minds of these believers to a different way of thinking.
Being nice and understanding and placing the blame for all their troubles on everyone else but them is not going to change anyones way of thinking.
In fact it will simply enforce the misguided path they have walked on for so long.

Mr. Lancasters stopsylvia website IS a very well written site no doubt.
The information he provides on his site IS needed indeed.

But as soon as he started adding articles about how Sylvia Browne was lying about smoking he should of realized that no more information was needed on the matter.

I have been told that saying anything in the negative about these believers will stop them from coming to this forum and sharing the information they have on TV psychics like Sylvia Browne.

Do we need more information than we already have?
We know they are lying about having psychic powers and everything else that comes out of their mouth.
So what difference does it make what they ate for breakfast that day or what kind of car they drive?

Call me what you will. Ignore me. It's all good.
My point is made.

 

[ExMinister]

Actually I do understand what you're getting at when you say these things. I don't think anyone would claim that believers have no responsibility for their own actions (I could be wrong but I haven't come across that yet).

Just this: Before people can admit they are believing lies, they need to REALIZE that they are hearing lies.

That's all.

You and I can forever go around in circles debating whether or not people SHOULD just know that anything to do with psychic abilities is a lie. Some people really don't seem to know that. You don't buy it. So we're at an impasse.

To me, Robert's site is another effective means of waking people up to the lie part.

Yeah, there are people who do know it's probably a crock and believe it because it makes them feel better. There is more than one type of believer. So Robert's web site serves the first type of person, the ones who have no idea that it's a lie until they see the evidence.

 

[Naddig74]

My friend who claims psychic powers gave up giving paid readings when she realised that the people who were coming to her were deeply deluded and emotionally unbalanced already.

She felt bad about helping them to stay that way, and for taking their money at the same time, especially the ones who rang her daily to find out what was going to happen to them tomorrow.

Taking advantage of people is taking advantage of people, whether you have a real 'ability' or not, and especially if they are vulnerable mentally or emotionally.

 

[Susan Gerbic]

How about this for starters. http://skepticblog.org/2010/06/26/brits-do-something-about-phony-mediums-three-cheers/#comment-22730

From Mark Edward, just up today. Very timely, maybe he is psychic?

 

[Elizabeth I]

"Psychics" are thieves. They take money for a service they can never deliver.

Furthermore, the Enron employees who continued to invest and re-invest their money in the company stock, at the urging of the senior executives, were no doubt complicit in their own personal bankruptcies when Enron failed. You have a responsibility to yourself to closely investigate what you invest your money in and not to put all your funds into one enterprise. That doesn't mean Lay, Skilling, et al., are any less thieves, nor that they shouldn't have been prosecuted.

 

[shandyjan]

Brattus I dont think youre wrong completely. I do think you use a broad brush though. There are people who really believe in this stuff and theyre decent people. You seem to think delusion is something everyone can sit down and see. Sometimes people do come around bit by bit. Sometimes they are lifelong believers. There are those in between who do not want to believe they were wrong, and will stretch the truth.
So long as the law lets people leech others, and grief vampires get their platforms on Montel and Oprah type shows, it will make some people think its legitimate!

 

[sadhatter]

I somewhat agree with the op, but not entirely.

I believe more than the tv psychics are to blame, but that blame doesn't rest solely on their fans. It rests on society in general. We live in a society where it is rude to say " psychics are frauds " to an individual, it is rude to say " i think the concept of god is childish", but it is perfectly polite to say " evolution is a hoax by atheist scientists."

We value belief more than facts, and that shows way too much. It is considered proper form in our society to let someone express any opinion and not contradict them as long as they couple that opinion with the word " belief".

This is where the problem is, we get told constantly of the value of people having faith. We get told of the value of people having any kind of hope ( false or otherwise) and we get told the negative impact of imparting to people the facts in these situations.

Society needs to evolve, we need to focus on promoting facts, i am not saying we need a skeptic gestapo to walk around breaking knees if someone likes sylvia browne. But we need to get beyond this belief is sacred garbage. When someone is expressing a view that is based on nothing but what they want to be true, we should not have to fear showing it to be wrong. It should not be considered rude to tell someone a fact. I mean if someone was trying to jump start their car using twizzlers and silly putty, it wouldn't be rude for me to inform them of their error and how to really jump start a car, so why is it if someone is trying to see the future with cards/talk to their dead relatives/get the winning lotto numbers by psychic power, suddenly it is no longer kosher to say that what they are doing is wrong ( in the sense that it is not going to work.)?

I blame the believers, they offer support and that is a bad thing. But theirs is a problem that is encouraged by the society we live in where someone's opinion is more important than objective facts. Feelings should have no place in the statement of fact. And the sooner we realize that bumming someone out is not a valid reason to not say a fact, the better we will be.

 

[Segnosaur]

I think that until these believers OWN their participation not only in the lies told by the "psychic" but the lies told by themselves.
Until they OWN the responsibilities of the harm those lies caused others than no respect or understanding should be given.

Because until they OWN their participation and funding of the TV psychic they are as bad as the TV psychic is.

Just because they lost money by giving it away freely to the TV psychic does not excuse their responsibility in the damage done.

Unfortunately, that type of philosophy is the moral equivalent of "the woman deserved to be sexually assaulted because of the way she was dressed".

Some people believe in psychic ability. We may wish it were not true, but it does. Why does it happen? Who knows, but I doubt being gullible is something people have a choice about.

The laws of the land have to be able to protect everyone. We wouldn't say "its ok to steal from children because they're incapable of fighting back". Similarly, we shouldn't allow people to scam the gullible believers in psychics just because their upbringing or biology makes them less capable of critical thinking.

And psychics are scamming people... they are supposedly providing a service (i.e. future prediction or talk with the dead) in exchange for money. The fact that cannot actually perform that service means they are accepting money under false pretenses.

 

[sadhatter]

Unfortunately, that type of philosophy is the moral equivalent of "the woman deserved to be sexually assaulted because of the way she was dressed".

Some people believe in psychic ability. We may wish it were not true, but it does. Why does it happen? Who knows, but I doubt being gullible is something people have a choice about.

The laws of the land have to be able to protect everyone. We wouldn't say "its ok to steal from children because they're incapable of fighting back". Similarly, we shouldn't allow people to scam the gullible believers in psychics just because their upbringing or biology makes them less capable of critical thinking.

And psychics are scamming people... they are supposedly providing a service (i.e. future prediction or talk with the dead) in exchange for money. The fact that cannot actually perform that service means they are accepting money under false pretenses.

Along that line i think there should be police " sting squads" for lack of a better term, like the kind that check out massage parlors for prostitution.

Here is how i think it should work.

Cop goes to a psychic in plain clothes with a fake life story and some fake questions. Should the psychic fall for this, they have proven they do not have the ability. Should the psychic see that the person is a cop, they will then have to give a specific reading without aid of the officer ( no leading questions, no info given. ) assuming the psychic can provide real information without using trickery the psychic may go on with their business ( though future sting's could occur. )

 

[RSLancastr]

Brattus, I have expressed my opinions on this with you many times.

This time, I will ask this instead:

Do you really believe that if Browne was a thief, she would be in jail?

Do you think that all thieves are in jail?

 

[Cruel Kismet]

Hi, this is only my second post, after introducing myself in the Welcome thread, so I hope no one will bash me too hard. I know feelings are pretty strong on this subject.

A few years ago, I had a radio scanner I occassionally turned on when bored and just let it step through the frequencies. It stopped on one that sounded like a phone conversation. I quickly realized from the frequency that it was a low-range cordless home phone. Although you're not supposed to listen to phone calls on the scanner, I gave in to temptation that time. It sounded like a psychiatrist or professional counselor talking to a patient. The "analyst" was advising a woman regarding issues of self-worth and frustration with current employment.

As the conversation progressed, it became apparent that the woman was talking to an employee of one of the psychic hotline services. The "psychic" talked a little about what she saw the woman doing in the future but it was actually more in the area of life-planning and encouragement than prophesy. They had developed a very good rapport and both seemed intelligent and basically well educated.

It was then that it dawned on me that the psychic thing was a come-on and the real service was personal counseling. The hotline employee was obviously trained in that area and gave what appeared to me to be excellent advice and support. I could sort of understand why at least that particular hotline might not feel a lot of guilt about what they were doing. The woman was probably paying around what she would have for the same time on the couch with a licensed psychiatrist.

I felt the worst thing was that this was the practicing of psychiatry, perhaps without credentials, but at least under false pretenses. What they were doing wasn't right, but it wasn't near as heinous as I had previously considered all psychic hotlines to be. I don't know how representative that conversation was, but in that case, the woman was definitely getting something positive out of it.

Please don't look at what I've said in this post to be a defense of the psychic nonsense. I just wanted to relate this story to show that everything isn't always simply black or white -- good or evil -- right or wrong, but I still feel the psychic business sucks, as it profits from preying upon people's gullibility and desperation based upon a false premise.

 

[ExMinister]

Hi, this is only my second post, after introducing myself in the Welcome thread, so I hope no one will bash me too hard. I know feelings are pretty strong on this subject.

A few years ago, I had a radio scanner I occassionally turned on when bored and just let it step through the frequencies. It stopped on one that sounded like a phone conversation. I quickly realized from the frequency that it was a low-range cordless home phone. Although you're not supposed to listen to phone calls on the scanner, I gave in to temptation that time. It sounded like a psychiatrist or professional counselor talking to a patient. The "analyst" was advising a woman regarding issues of self-worth and frustration with current employment.

As the conversation progressed, it became apparent that the woman was talking to an employee of one of the psychic hotline services. The "psychic" talked a little about what she saw the woman doing in the future but it was actually more in the area of life-planning and encouragement than prophesy. They had developed a very good rapport and both seemed intelligent and basically well educated.

It was then that it dawned on me that the psychic thing was a come-on and the real service was personal counseling. The hotline employee was obviously trained in that area and gave what appeared to me to be excellent advice and support. I could sort of understand why at least that particular hotline might not feel a lot of guilt about what they were doing. The woman was probably paying around what she would have for the same time on the couch with a licensed psychiatrist.

I felt the worst thing was that this was the practicing of psychiatry, perhaps without credentials, but at least under false pretenses. What they were doing wasn't right, but it wasn't near as heinous as I had previously considered all psychic hotlines to be. I don't know how representative that conversation was, but in that case, the woman was definitely getting something positive out of it.

Please don't look at what I've said in this post to be a defense of the psychic nonsense. I just wanted to relate this story to show that everything isn't always simply black or white -- good or evil -- right or wrong, but I still feel the psychic business sucks, as it profits from preying upon people's gullibility and desperation based upon a false premise.

No bashing...

The biggest issue I would have with this is the fact that believers place an inordinant amount of significance on what psychics tell them, more so than they would with an ordinary human counselor or therapist who did not claim to have magical powers or the ability to read the person's future.

Even if they offer some helpful advice, it is probably going to be mixed in with psychic predictions and other mumbo-jumbo which can be very dangerous. Case in point: Let's say a psychic gives you a lot of good advice but also tells you that your husband is a dark entity and you are destined to divorce him. Perhaps you had been leaning toward couples therapy and divorce might not have been a serious option until the psychic said this. In this case, the good advice has only served to make the psychic more credible to you, which is not a good thing.

A little good advice is not worth the much greater risk. Much better to avoid the psychics like the plague.

At any rate, welcome to the forum!

 

[Cruel Kismet]

No bashing...

The biggest issue I would have with this is the fact that believers place an inordinant amount of significance on what psychics tell them, more so than they would with an ordinary human counselor or therapist who did not claim to have magical powers or the ability to read the person's future.

Even if they offer some helpful advice, it is probably going to be mixed in with psychic predictions and other mumbo-jumbo which can be very dangerous. Case in point: Let's say a psychic gives you a lot of good advice but also tells you that your husband is a dark entity and you are destined to divorce him. Perhaps you had been leaning toward couples therapy and divorce might not have been a serious option until the psychic said this. In this case, the good advice has only served to make the psychic more credible to you, which is not a good thing.

A little good advice is not worth the much greater risk. Much better to avoid the psychics like the plague.

At any rate, welcome to the forum!

I fully agree with your comments. Thanks for the welcome.