The Patsies-Theory

Oliver

Penultimate Amazing
Oliver
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
17,396
I´ve seen a lot of arguments to the patsies theories - like the doubles-theory about the hijacker. Since i´ve learned so much about these AQ - guys, i cant even imagine that these theories have some truth in it. That these guys were paid or work for american intelligence.

What could you argue about these theories?
Who´s familiar in here beside Gumboot?
 
Most CT arguments on this come from "research" done by a group called "Team8" I believe. They are a group of "diligent" CTers who have documented every single news clip, govt document, etc on all the hijackers, and from this conclude that "doubles" and in some cases "triples" of the hijackers were at work. Somehow they then conclude that this means the CIA/FBI/USG were in fact orchestrating the whole Hijacker thing. It is proposterous, as almost all of what they say can be explained through either mistakes in times they were seen, and the hijakcers using each others names, and using aliases for themselves.

I have seen, from none of them, any CONVINCING evidence that there was any connection between the hijacker pre 9/11 activities and CIA/FBI involvement.

TAM
 
Some of the Loosers seem to belive in this Crap - they did ban me just for asking "REEEAAALLY?" :D
 
Oh ya, I should have told you. Dylan is a big believer in the whole "doubles" issue.

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
I have seen, from none of them, any CONVINCING evidence that there was any connection between the hijacker pre 9/11 activities and CIA/FBI involvement.
Click to expand...

Well, let's not go too far. We know that the CIA "advised" the Afghan freedom fighters. We know that OBL was a very successful student and recipient of the USA's help.

This branch of CT'ers wants us to infer an ongoing relationship with Bin Laden from that time all the way through 9/11. There is, of course, no reason to do so. Many of our "friends" from that era, including Manuel Noriega, lost favor with the US government after the USSR imploded.
 
No Name Calling

Oliver said:
Some of the Loosers seem to belive in this Crap - they did ban me just for asking "REEEAAALLY?" :D
Click to expand...

Now you know how I feel when I have certain opinions, beliefs and people attack me personally on this forum, instead of leading me to information or enlightening me if they disagree.

kc440
 
Loss Leader said:
Well, let's not go too far. We know that the CIA "advised" the Afghan freedom fighters. We know that OBL was a very successful student and recipient of the USA's help.

This branch of CT'ers wants us to infer an ongoing relationship with Bin Laden from that time all the way through 9/11. There is, of course, no reason to do so. Many of our "friends" from that era, including Manuel Noriega, lost favor with the US government after the USSR imploded.
Click to expand...

Ok, yes I suppose if you back that far, the CIA offered help, and the USG supplied them with arms, but that was 15-20 years earlier.

I will clarify.

No CTer has provided any conclusive evidence that in the 10 years prior to 9/11 the CIA/FBI/USG helped or funded or protected any of the Al-qaeda or its operatives.

TAM
 
kc440_ said:
Now you know how I feel when I have certain opinions, beliefs and people attack me personally on this forum, instead of leading me to information or enlightening me if they disagree.

kc440
Click to expand...

who has attacked you personally on this forum, and for what? What point were you making, or what questions were you asking at the time that someone attacked you personally here on JREF?

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
Most CT arguments on this come from "research" done by a group called "Team8" I believe. They are a group of "diligent" CTers who have documented every single news clip, govt document, etc on all the hijackers, and from this conclude that "doubles" and in some cases "triples" of the hijackers were at work. Somehow they then conclude that this means the CIA/FBI/USG were in fact orchestrating the whole Hijacker thing. It is proposterous, as almost all of what they say can be explained through either mistakes in times they were seen, and the hijakcers using each others names, and using aliases for themselves.

I have seen, from none of them, any CONVINCING evidence that there was any connection between the hijacker pre 9/11 activities and CIA/FBI involvement.

TAM
Click to expand...

Loss Leader said:
Well, let's not go too far. We know that the CIA "advised" the Afghan freedom fighters. We know that OBL was a very successful student and recipient of the USA's help.

This branch of CT'ers wants us to infer an ongoing relationship with Bin Laden from that time all the way through 9/11. There is, of course, no reason to do so. Many of our "friends" from that era, including Manuel Noriega, lost favor with the US government after the USSR imploded.
Click to expand...

I also did not see anything that leeds me to the conclusion that there is something in it wich could be plausible or factual true. However - i did wonder why they claim to know this for sure that OBL is a good friend of the intelligence. Weird stuff, really...
 
kc440_ said:
Now you know how I feel when I have certain opinions, beliefs and people attack me personally on this forum, instead of leading me to information or enlightening me if they disagree.

kc440
Click to expand...

You have no chance to challenge them in there. The admins read everything and they ban you very fast if you don´t agree with them, especially "Daniel" and "Painter". "THE DECIDER" is a littlebit openminded, i gues so far...
 
Loss Leader said:
Um ... okay. The world you live in must be a dark, Kafkaesque Tim Burton nightmare so good luck with that.
Click to expand...

ok, this is the only comment in that thread that is remotely inflammatory, or name calling, or what not.

I guess to me that is more of a comment or opinion on someone based on their own comments.

Name calling, to me would be...

"KC440 you are a stupid, narrow minded geek who lives in mommy's basement, never gets out, and thinks everyone is out to get them."

The above is not my opinion, but an example of what my opinion of "name calling" would be.

IMO. I think if you are overly sensitive to opinion and expression of opinions, than you may have issues in the future on this site.

TAM
 
Loss Leader said:
Well, let's not go too far. We know that the CIA "advised" the Afghan freedom fighters. We know that OBL was a very successful student and recipient of the USA's help.
Click to expand...
We don't know that, actually. The US gave money & weapons to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, & they were the ones mainly responsible for allocating it. There was some CIA contact with various commanders, but there's minimal evidence bin Ladin had anything to do with that.
 
MikeW said:
We don't know that, actually. The US gave money & weapons to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, & they were the ones mainly responsible for allocating it. There was some CIA contact with various commanders, but there's minimal evidence bin Ladin had anything to do with that.
Click to expand...

One thing people are always confusing is there were two groups (well actually more) of mujahadeen, the native Afghans and the Arab foreign fighters. The US, indirectly supported the natives, not the Arabs. They actually provided very little training, mostly just logistics.
 
MikeW said:
We don't know that, actually. The US gave money & weapons to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, & they were the ones mainly responsible for allocating it. There was some CIA contact with various commanders, but there's minimal evidence bin Ladin had anything to do with that.
Click to expand...

I meant to imply that this was the best case for involvement of OBL with the CIA. If this link doesn't get the CTists from the mujahadin to 9/11, nothing can. And this link is, at best, not nearly enough to infer a continuing connection between the US and the former Afghani freedom fighters.
 
kc440_ said:
Now you know how I feel when I have certain opinions, beliefs and people attack me personally on this forum, instead of leading me to information or enlightening me if they disagree.

kc440
Click to expand...

Why would anyone have to enlighten you. You want it you find it. It's just that simple.

You can lead a believer to the facts, but you can't make them think.
 
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