The NAZI'S leftists?

[Questioninggeller]

JAR started a rather interesting thread, and I would like to contniue on a partilcuar claim he said.

The Nazis were socialists. Otto von Bismarck, who was the quintessential conservative, was opposed to socialism. The Nazis were leftists.

One must also remember that it was the Democrats who supported slavery in the years preceding the American Civil War. The Republican Abraham Lincoln, was against it. The leftist Democrats supported slavery.

My response the Nazi's blamed the loss of WWI on the leftists who they claimed betrayed them. Also Hitler opposed and hated deeply the any Marxist idea. Hitler gain control through the combining of several different "rightist" groups and took the name (and only the name) National Socialism to make the party grow in membership and recruit more people.

As for Lincoln-- it does not mean that leftists wanted to keep slavery. In fact in his first address he stated he would do anything to keep the country togetehr including keep slavery.
http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs/html/greely2.htm

Also the political parties shifted in the 1920's when many Republican liberals during Coolidge and Harding's terms departed and the Democrats (needing voter support) turned to extend to more of a border section of people and losing more consevrative members. The parties have not stayed the same that is why many republicans now used to Democrats, the parties have been constantly changing, and what party Lincoln was has nothing to do with anti-racism. There were ranks in both parties against and for it.

 

[Cain]

"National Socialism" as "Jar" is using it, as you point out, is a misnomer. One of Hitler's first actions was to break up the Communist party and consolidate power. Hitler was a right-wing fascist who praised America's slaughter of the Indians and loved businessmen like Henry Ford.

Describing Otto Von Bismark as the "quintessential conservative" lacks specific meaning. Bismark, of course, was the first to really introduce a social security type program for old folks (thus beginning a march toward the insidious welfare state).

As for Democrats supporting slavery, he's quite right, but those Democrats can hardly be considered leftists. This reminds me of the nonsense Commissar Hannity pulled in one of his "debates" on that silly Fox News show about a year ago. He kept talking about the confederate flag in X state (South Carolina?) was introduced under an evil Democrat. But, of course, Democrats then were rather conservative. Strom Thurmond used to be a Democrat. The ideology of those Southern Democrats is actually far closer to contemporary Republicans (see T. Lott or R. Santorum). Kevin Phillips, former strategist for the GOP, predicted the "emerging Republican majority" because Southern states would eventually switch parties.

 

[JAR]

[BDescribing Otto Von Bismark as the "quintessential conservative" lacks specific meaning. Bismark, of course, was the first to really introduce a social security type program for old folks (thus beginning a march toward the insidious welfare state). [/B]

Yeah, but you had to be 70 years or older to get social security under his system.

 

[shanek]

The Nazis were authoritarians. They combine the worst elements of the right and the left.

 

[Whoracle]

"Yeah, but you had to be 70 years or older to get social security under his system"


You gotta be 70 or pretty close to it get social security in America.

 

[JAR]

"Yeah, but you had to be 70 years or older to get social security under his system"


You gotta be 70 or pretty close to it get social security in America.

I imagine the life expectancy of the average modern-day American is somewhat higher than the average life expectancy of a German in the second half of the 1800s.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by Cain"National Socialism" as "Jar" is using it, as you point out, is a misnomer. One of Hitler's first actions was to break up the Communist party and consolidate power. Hitler was a right-wing fascist who praised America's slaughter of the Indians and loved businessmen like Henry Ford. [/B]

Be careful with calling Hitler a Fascist. And be even more careful with calling Hitler a right wing Fascist.

The goal of Mussolini (the fascist par excellence) was the glory of his nation, Italy. The nation first, then the individual. No matter what individual.

The goal of Hitler was also a Collectivist one. But his goal was to "breed back" the "masterace". Therefore his goals were Racist. He didn't care very much for the nation Germany.

H. was far more left than you might think. He had most of his supporters amongst the rural farmes. (The DDR called itself "Arbeiter-und Bauern-Staat", which trranslates into "workers and farmer' state"). He was not very loved among the nobility(and I think they are right-wing).

 

[Skeptic]

While the Nazis were not leftist, of course, there are two points that make what JAR said more reasonable than it seemed at first sight:

1). In the 1920s, many of the early Nazis (esp. Georg Esser and Earnst Rohm, and, for a time, Goebbles) WERE socialists, and took the "socialist" in "national socialist" seriously. They saw themselves as a national alternative to the communist international socialism. Hitler got rid of them after he came to power.

2). The extreme right and extreme left are really two sides of the same coin, with their absolute truths, list of enemies and tratiors that must be destroyed, and so on.

 

[Jon_in_london]

National Socialism should in fact combine the best of both the right and left. Its true that the NAZI state was very socialist but also very right wing. Of course NAZIsm incorporated the WORST not the best of both extremes........ nevertheless, NAZIsm worked wonders for Germany, turning it from a chaotic basket case into a force that took four of the worlds most powerfull nations- including the industrial ginat USA, the population giant Russia and the vast French and British Empires (with all the population, industry and technology thery possessed) to defeat.

What was so bad about NAZIsm was the loss of democracy and human rights wich resulted into a slide into a superstious rascist tyranny

 

[Leif Roar]

nevertheless, NAZIsm worked wonders for Germany, turning it from a chaotic basket case into a force that took four of the worlds most powerfull nations- including the industrial ginat USA, the population giant Russia and the vast French and British Empires (with all the population, industry and technology thery possessed) to defeat.

It's been a while since I had about it in school, but wasn't much of the work that allowed Germany to recover economically and industrially from the first World War already done when the Nazis came into power?

 

[kedo1981]

“It's been a while since I had about it in school, but wasn't much of the work that allowed Germany to recover economically and industrially from the first World War already done when the Nazis came into power?”

It was until the big stock market crash

There is a lot of revisionist BS on talk radio about the Nazis being leftist; I’m looking for a way of disputing that

 

[Crossbow]

The Nazis started off with rather leftist leanings.

In fact, the Nazis and Communists were often on the same side of many issues and in one of my books on the rise of the Nazis describes several occasions where this occurred. The book also had photos of Nazi and Communist flags flying besides each other (and the red background of the Nazi flag is there homage to many Communist ideals). Early on, Hitler wrote up a list of the things that the Nazis stood for, but after he started to gain power, this list was promptly forgotten.

However, as the Nazis gained power, they became rather friendly with the establishment and they began to detest the Communists since many Nazis viewed them as agents of the Soviet Union and/or the Jews as opposed to German citizens with an opposing view.

Hitler spent most of his early life as a rather poor individual so he had many honest sympathies for the lower classes, and most people did accept that, after all he did not come from a wealthy, well educated family, nor was he a self-made rich person. But as the Nazi party grew in numbers and influence, he quickly became accustomed to the trappings of upper class life such as tailored suits, chauffered cars, private planes, large houses, good looking women, and so on.

It just goes to show that taking power is one thing and keeping power is another.