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The MMR controversy in pictures

Can someone answer a question for me? Wakefileld is saying MMR causes autism cuz it hurts the gut somehow? Wouldn't wild measles do that, and worse, since it is not inactivated the way the vaccine is? Also, how would the measles get to the gut when injected into an arm muscle. Wouldn't wild measles be the only thing getting to the gut because of the way it would be ingested? This dumb hypothesis he made up would only ever work for wild measles!


His little ridiculous claim falls so flat for so many ridiculous reasons! Yet, "big pharma" is supposedly covering this far fetched BS up? Come on!
 
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Even though the attenuated virus (not inactivated) is injected into muscle it can replicate and spread throughout the body and home to the gut (other viruses do this too such as HIV). I don't know the mechanism.

I need to check the story about wild measles.
 
Hey! I thought comics were supposed to be funny.

Linda
 
Capsid said:
Even though the attenuated virus (not inactivated) is injected into muscle it can replicate and spread throughout the body and home to the gut (other viruses do this too such as HIV). I don't know the mechanism.

I need to check the story about wild measles.
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If the attenuated version did that, then wouldn't certainly the unattenuated do the same and much worse? Just wondering why antivaxxers don't think about stuff like that at all.

Never mind the fact that neither would hurt the gut in a way to cause autism, as that has already been disproven.
 
I did a quick search on PubMed and the follow up studies to that of Wakefield failed to find any measles virus (both wild type and attenuated) in the guts of children with bowel disorders/autism. There was a big question mark over the sensitivity of the assays used by Wakefield.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Can someone answer a question for me? Wakefileld is saying MMR causes autism cuz it hurts the gut somehow? Wouldn't wild measles do that, and worse, since it is not inactivated the way the vaccine is? Also, how would the measles get to the gut when injected into an arm muscle. Wouldn't wild measles be the only thing getting to the gut because of the way it would be ingested? This dumb hypothesis he made up would only ever work for wild measles!


His little ridiculous claim falls so flat for so many ridiculous reasons! Yet, "big pharma" is supposedly covering this far fetched BS up? Come on!
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Wakefield's hypothesis totally fails to address this issue.
Basically, if measles virus damages the gut, wild measles would do so as well, as would the monovalent measles vaccine.
Perhaps his advice to space all the jabs out in time might mean a child would be exposed to the risk of measles-induced gut damage later on, say at 2.5 years of age. But he never explicitly said that, just leaving the idea that only MMR strain measles was a problem.

Wild type measles is inhaled, rather than ingested into the gut, so the entry point for the virus is usually the thoat and upper airways. Virus replicates locally, spreads to regional lymphatic tissues, and is then thought to disseminate to other reticuloendothelial sites and to the skin via the bloodstream (and to the gut).

In malnourished, immune compromised kids it can result in horrible diarrhoea, furhter causing malabsorbtion and malnutrition. Kids can just waste away. I've seen it, along with measles encephalitis (convulsing, comatose kids), laryngo-tracheobronchitis (gasping to breathe through narrowed inflammed windpipes, eyes wide with fear of impending death), pneumonia (grunting, gasping respirations and a flaccid, floppy near dead kid).

Telling parents their kid has died (from a preventable disease) was one of the hardest things I learned to do/had to do in my formative training years.

We used to thank our lucky stars when the kids merely had perforated eardrums oozing out pus, or had cancrum oris where the face rotted away - they used to survive those, even if they were deaf or malformed afterwards.
 
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Deetee said:
Wakefield's hypothesis totally fails to address this issue.
Basically, if measles virus damages the gut, wild measles would do so as well, as would the monovalent measles vaccine.
Perhaps his advice to space all the jabs out in time might mean a child would be exposed to the risk of measles-induced gut damage later on, say at 2.5 years of age. But he never explicitly said that, just leaving the idea that only MMR strain measles was a problem.

Wild type measles is inhaled, rather than ingested into the gut, so the entry point for the virus is usually the thoat and upper airways. Virus replicates locally, spreads to regional lymphatic tissues, and is then thought to disseminate to other reticuloendothelial sites and to the skin via the bloodstream (and to the gut).

In malnourished, immune compromised kids it can result in horrible diarrhoea, furhter causing malabsorbtion and malnutrition. Kids can just waste away. I've seen it, along with measles encephalitis (convulsing, comatose kids), laryngo-tracheobronchitis (gasping to breathe through narrowed inflammed windpipes, eyes wide with fear of impending death), pneumonia (grunting, gasping respirations and a flaccid, floppy near dead kid).

Telling parents their kid has died (from a preventable disease) was one of the hardest things I learned to do/had to do in my formative training years.

We used to thank our lucky stars when the kids merely had perforated eardrums oozing out pus, or had cancrum oris where the face rotted away - they used to survive those, even if they were deaf or malformed afterwards.
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You know you'll get called a scaremonger for that! sighs...
 
fls said:
Hey! I thought comics were supposed to be funny.
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I think we should forgive the author. He has not recieved any comments from antiwaxers. Maybe that was their original intention, but then they learned something and stopped being antiwaxers :D
 
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I heard Wakefield on the Today programme on radio this morning, trying to defend his claim (you can download the podcast here for the next week).

Pretty unconvincing, though I don't think he was really tackled on the essentials of his argument. He was just responding the concerns of parents, apparently, and in his reply he constantly referred to 'we' rather than 'I', spreading the blame. He was also claiming that it was the fault of the government that single vaccines were no longer available, so any reduction in immunisation due to the scare over the MMR vaccine which he created, and the increase of measles as a result, is obviously not his fault.

ETA: Regarding the otherwise excellent cartoon linked to in the OP, if you think 150 quid an hour is 'staggering', you've clearly never employed a lawyer...
 
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He also specifically stated that he never claimed the MMR was linked to autism in the radio 4 interview. Did he make such a statement at the time? I know the press jumped to the wrong conclusion possibly as a result of Wakefield's press conference where he proposed use of single vaccines and thereby suggesting a problem with the MMR. Surely then was the time to counter the incorrect reporting of his paper?
 
Capsid said:
He also specifically stated that he never claimed the MMR was linked to autism in the radio 4 interview. Did he make such a statement at the time? I know the press jumped to the wrong conclusion possibly as a result of Wakefield's press conference where he proposed use of single vaccines and thereby suggesting a problem with the MMR. Surely then was the time to counter the incorrect reporting of his paper?
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Huh? He said MMR in the gut was a link to autism! Incorrect reporting my tooshie!! He said that even though he never actually found MMR in the gut, as proven later. His whole paper was a huge sham.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
You know you'll get called a scaremonger for that! sighs...
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Tough.
Maybe so, but there is proof/evidence that what I saw was the result of measles, and that measles can do all these things.

Antivaxers merely assume that the problems they worry over - ASD, ADHD, etc are the result of vaccinations. But they have no evidence, none.
 
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