The Hiding in Caves meme

Which of the following describes most closely your current believes?

  • I accept the official 9/11 story, and believe that some of the involved Al Qaeda members planned thi

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • I accept the official 9/11 story, and do NOT believe that some of the involved Al Qaeda members plan

    Votes: 50 84.7%

  • I doubt the official 9/11 story, and believe that the official story accuses members of Al Qaeda who

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • I doubt the official 9/11 story, and do NOT believe that the official story accuses members of Al Qa

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .

Oystein

Penultimate Amazing
Oystein
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Dec 9, 2009
Messages
18,903
A recent new thread repeated in its OP the meme that the commonly accepted 9/11 story involved "Arabs hiding in caves".

I wonder if anyone actually believes this meme, and who they are.
 
Why is the wording different for truthers (the official story part)?
 
You forgot to include another important option Oystein.

'' I do not believe the official story and believe that Al-Quaeda is a construction of the American Government.''
 
bill smith said:
You forgot to include another important option Oystein.

'' I do not believe the official story and believe that Al-Quaeda is a construction of the American Government.''
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I think he's trying to keep it only a little bit crazy. Not 'so totally off the charts you'd better get a doctor' crazy.
 
The government's rebuttal focused yesterday on summations made earlier on behalf of two other defendants. The prosecutor, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, sharply rejected defense assertions that one defendant, Wadih El-Hage, was a loyal American who had traveled frequently as part of his work in Mr. bin Laden's legitimate businesses.

''The mask has been stripped away,'' Mr. Fitzgerald said. ''He is what he did. He worked for a group that he knew was fighting against America. He wanted them to succeed and he helped every way that he could, whether it be fake passports, coded messages, taking trips to see the boss in the cave in Afghanistan, or just coming into this grand jury in this building, raising his hand, and lying through his teeth.''
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May 2001
 
Most of the hijackers were university students in Germany when they were recruited by AQ, weren't they?

I thought most university students lived in apartments and dormitorys, not caves?
 
What I understand is the caveman meme was born during the Soviet invasion as they tried to dislodge the mujahadeen from the mountaians. Some people think they never came out.
 
AJM8125 said:
What I understand is the caveman meme was born during the Soviet invasion as they tried to dislodge the mujahadeen from the mountaians. Some people think they never came out.
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Including, it seems, the Department of Justice - or whoever collated the evidence that sent the Nairobi bombers to jail.
 
Regardless of the rhetorical flourishes of a prosecuting attorney, before 9/11 Osama was living at the Tarnak Farms compound, not in a cave. The hijackers, before they came to the US, mostly were in Hamburg, or Saudi Arabia, both areas with a lack of inhabitable caves.
 
I think it's possible that at some point, someone may have have had an idea related to the plan while standing in a cave. Maybe they even wrote it down there, I dunno. But there's no way to prove it, and the plan was probably formulated in buildings and houses like most plans.
 
The cave thing is just a way to thinly disguise someones racist beliefs along the lines of Arabs are ignorant filthy creatures who can't even build a proper building so they have to live in caves.

The reality is that most of the people involved had university level educations (some even in fields where they would've normally been involved in the process of designing and building proper buildings). The caves were a remote fallback location that was also conveniently somewhat bombproof. It's where they ran to, not where they ran things from if given the choice.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
The cave thing is just a way to thinly disguise someones racist beliefs along the lines of Arabs are ignorant filthy creatures who can't even build a proper building so they have to live in caves.
.
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Actually I agree with you here - and I sure you will join with me in denouncing the hateful racism that is leading Americans to bomb Libya because they refuse to obey American demands.

However, I should point out (AGAIN) hiding in caves is a truther meme that is usually used simply to mock the official story. Originally it was what the mainstream media said about Osama. If I could be bothered I could easily find you 100 well-credentialed experts or news outlets using this meme pre Sept 11

I can't be bothered find 100, hopefully these two will give a flavour

http://www.boston.com/news/packages...oney_loathing_fuel_bin_Laden_s_network+.shtml

Money, loathing fuel bin Laden's network

By Charles M. Sennott, Globe Staff, 9/13/2001

LONDON - The Saudi exile Osama bin Laden, whom investigators were zeroing in on yesterday as a prime suspect in the most devastating attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor, has waged his ''holy war'' from caves in the mountains of Afghanistan backed by his fortune, his faith, his loathing for America, and what those around him describe as a death wish.
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Associated Press
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAAIBAJ&pg=5038,3696771&dq=osama+caves&hl=en

Planning strategy in damp caves infested with scorpions and rats, bin Laden maintained a disciplined life-style, waking up before dawn for prayers, then eating a simple breakfast of cheese and bread. He closely monitored world affairs, especially US foreign policy in the Arab world. Almost daily, he and his men - Egyptians, Yemenis and Saudis, among others - practised attacks, hurling explosives at targets and shooting at imaginary enemies.
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Aug 1998. Completely racist I agree, but not on the part of truthers.
 
Mr. Skinny said:
Why is the wording different for truthers (the official story part)?
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Because I am more interested in what members, especially "debunkers", believe themselves about the housing situation of AQ members in Afghanistan. In the case of truthers, they might not believe even in the existence of AQ, so I would have to ask them what they believe that debunkers believe.

If someone accepts the offical version completely, then there is no difference between asking what they belief vs. what the official story says. You are right that someone could believe the official account but disagree about caves or no-caves. In that case, I am interested in what the person thinks, as my perception of the meme applies to what debunkers believe, not what the story says
 
little grey rabbit said:
However, I should point out (AGAIN) hiding in caves is a truther meme that is usually used simply to mock the official story. Originally it was what the mainstream media said about Osama. If I could be bothered I could easily find you 100 well-credentialed experts or news outlets using this meme pre Sept 11
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I have one of those special caves handy in my uploaded images. According to Rummy, there were many of them. :rolleyes:

990749fca998abbd4.gif
 
At the time that the perps were laying these fortress caves on the population people were running around saying things like ' They are coming to take our freedom'. This was after they had been traumatised into a state of complete terror and suggestibilty by 9/11, the Anthrax attacks, the media and the government.

If you think that it was an accident ask yourself whether you would believe Rumsfeld today or whether ypu can imagine yourself saying 'they are coming to take our freedom'.You were played like fish.
 
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