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The Case Against Immortality

DoomMetal

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The Scientific Case Against Immortality by Keith Augustine

I have highlighted some key paragraphs about how NDE's are not evidence for immortality:

Modern science demonstrates the dependence of consciousness on the brain, verifying that the mind must die with the body. This conclusion is emotionally difficult to accept. Dylan Thomas forcefully expresses the animosity that many of us feel toward the prospect of our inevitable extinction: "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light" (Lamont 211). Miguel de Unamuno expresses similar feelings: "If it is nothingness that awaits us, let us make an injustice of it; let us fight against destiny, even though without hope of victory" (Lamont 211). Bertrand Russell comes to a different conclusion: "I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is nonetheless true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting" (Edwards, "Immortality" vi). I must admit that, when confronted by the death of someone close to me, or contemplating my own inevitable death, I am not comforted by such words of wisdom. Nevertheless, we cannot base our beliefs on what we want to be true; the truth can only be found by weighing the evidence for a given idea. In the case of immortality, the extinction hypothesis is supported by strong and incontrovertible evidence from the hard experimental data of physiological psychology, whereas the survival hypothesis is supported at best by weak and questionable anecdotal evidence from parapsychology.

The rallying cry of many parapsychologists is that they have discovered indisputable evidence for paranormal or "psi" phenomena inexplicable by modern science which has either been ignored or denied by the scientific community at large on the purely dogmatic grounds that psi does not fit into the preconceived notions and prejudices of modern scientists. These parapsychologists often speak of a forthcoming scientific revolution comparable to Copernicus' discovery that the sun is the center of the solar system. Antony Flew argues that the charges of a priori dogmatism are unjustified:

It is simply grotesque to complain, in the absence of any such decisive falsifying evidence, that these appeals to ... the named laws of established physics are exercises in a priori dogmatism. For what "a priori" means is: prior to and independent of experience. But in ... these kinds of cases we have an enormous mass of experience supporting our present beliefs and our present incredulities (Flew, "Parapsychology" 138-9).

There is no basis for the conclusion that parapsychology is going to lead some kind of scientific revolution. The revolutionary theories of Copernicus and Darwin required support from several different types of solid evidence before gaining acceptance in the scientific community; Einstein's predictions from relativity were based on a scientific theory and subsequently verified by experiment. Yet, when we analyze parapsychology we find no such hints of a forthcoming revolution. First, to quote Flew, "the long sought repeatable demonstration of any psi phenomena seems to be as far away as ever" (Flew, "Parapsychology" 140). A study by the National Research Council in 1988, published as Enhancing Human Performance, surveyed many areas of research to determine how to improve individual and group performance (Frazier 150). The NRC report's section on "Paranormal Phenomena" concluded: "The committee finds no scientific justification from research conducted over a period of 130 years for the existence of parapsychological phenomena" (Frazier 151). Second, "no one has been able to think up any halfway plausible theory accounting for the occurrence of any psi phenomena" (Flew, "Parapsychology" 140). Finally, parapsychologists offer no positive criteria for what kind of event should be categorized as an instance of paranormal phenomena. As Flew puts it, "all psi terms refer rather to the absence of any means or mechanism, or at any rate to the absence of any normal and understood means" (140).

Other phenomena often cited as evidence for survival are near-death experiences or NDEs. Survival proponents argue that because the core features of NDEs are almost invariably reported by experients, NDEs constitute evidence for an objective afterlife reality. However, these core features can be explained by physiological models because the same brain processes occur at the onset of dying (e.g. oxygen deprivation, endorphin release, and random neural firing) in those who undergo NDEs, thus their subjective experiences should be similar (Blackmore, "Dying" 261). Another argument is that NDEs are real because they feel real, but this does not constitute evidence that NDEs reflect an external reality anymore than the fact that hallucinations feel real constitutes evidence that they are real. Some researchers claim that information has been obtained in NDEs by means other than sensory perception, but there is no experimental evidence to support these claims. Madelaine Lawrence designed an information retrieval experiment where an electronic screen placed in the cardiac rehabilitation ward in Hartford Hospital, Connecticut, displayed a sentence that was changed randomly and could not be seen from the vantage of a patient or the staff (Lawrence 158-9). When someone had an NDE, all they had to do is repeat what the sentence said; then the staff could report what the NDEr said and determine if there was a match. The results produced no evidence that anyone could retrieve information from a remote location during an NDE[5]. The accuracy of descriptions of the environment in NDEs may be based on semiconscious perceptions of the environment prior to the breakdown of perception which are incorporated into hallucinatory imagery during NDEs. There is no corroboration for claims of perception outside of the immediate environment of the patient[6] or accurate perception in NDEs in the blind[7], thus the paranormal argument does not constitute evidence for survival (125-133). Finally, the fact that people undergo positive personality transformations after NDEs does not indicate a mystical experience of an afterlife. A study conducted by Kenneth Ring found that personality transformations occurred in people who come medically close to death regardless of whether or not they experienced an NDE, suggesting that the transformation resulted from facing death rather than an NDE (248-9).

Some findings of NDE research are more consistent with physiological and psychological models. None of the patients who report NDEs are brain dead because brain death is irreversible (Beyerstein 46). First, NDEs only occur in one-third of all cases where there is a near-death crisis (Ring 194). Second, the details of NDEs depend on the individual's personal and cultural background (Ring 195). Third, physiological and psychological factors affect the content of the NDE. Noises, tunnels, bright lights, and other beings are more common in physiological conditions directly affecting the brain state, such as cardiac arrest and anesthesia, whereas euphoria, mystical feelings, life review, and positive transformation can occur when people simply believe they are going to die (Blackmore, "Dying" 44-45). Fourth, the core features of NDEs are found in drug-induced and naturally occurring hallucinations (Siegel 174). The OBE can be induced by the anesthetic ketamine (Blackmore, "Dying" 170). A tunnel experience is a common form of psychedelic hallucination (Siegel 175-6). All NDE stages have occurred in sequence under the influence of hashish (Blackmore, "Dying" 42-3). Fifth, a build-up of carbon dioxide in the brain will induce NDEs (Blackmore, "Dying" 53-4). Sixth, the panoramic life review closely resembles a form of temporal lobe epilepsy (206). There are even cases where epileptics have had OBEs or seen apparitions of dead friends and relatives during their seizures (206). Seventh, computer simulations of random neural firing based on eye-brain mapping of the visual cortex have produced the tunnel and light characteristic of NDEs (84). Eighth, the fact that naloxone--an opiate antagonist that inhibits the effects of endorphins on the brain--terminates near-death experiences provides some confirmation for the endorphin theory of NDEs:

Within a minute [after being injected with naloxone] he awoke in an agitated state, and later reported an NDE-like experience that apparently was interrupted by the naloxone, suggesting that the experience may have been mediated by opioid peptides (Saavedra-Aguilar and Gomez-Jeria 210-211).

Finally, NDEs can be induced by direct electrical stimulation of brain areas surrounding the Sylvian fissure in the right temporal lobe (Morse 104).

Other findings are flatly inconsistent with survival. The tunnels described in NDEs vary considerably in form. If NDEs reflected an external reality, one would expect consistency in the form of tunnel experiences reported (Blackmore, "Dying" 77). Furthermore, NDE cases have been reported where the patient has identified the "beings of light" as the medical staff making resuscitation attempts (227). Finally, the fact that "children are more likely to see living friends than those who have died" in NDEs strongly suggests that NDEs are not experiences of an external afterlife reality (Blackmore, "Near-Death" 36).

See here for his full essay:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/immortality.html
 
According to Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged, the argument against immortality is
Sunday afternoons.
 
DoomMetal, thank you very much for that article, very interesting. My first impression was that Augustine is too much a black-or-white thinker. An analogy would be that he is trying to solve a quantum mechanical problem using classical mechanics. Naturally the essay is also skeptically lopsided.

Augustine has done a laudable background work, and I hope I can return with details after carefully reading the whole article.
 
Now that one I never heard of :

Finally, the fact that "children are more likely to see living friends than those who have died" in NDEs strongly suggests that NDEs are not experiences of an external afterlife reality (Blackmore, "Near-Death" 36).

That would be IMNSHO a very strong nail in the coffin of NDE being an after life picture.
 
Modern science demonstrates the dependence of consciousness on the brain...
The author's whole case depends on this statement, and I find no evidence to support it. A demonstration is irrefutable, and therefore refutes all arguments to the contrary. This is far from the state of affairs at present, as any perusal of the literature on the mind/brain identity theory will show.

The author, after avoiding any mention of the controversial nature of this statement, goes on to say "the extinction hypothesis is supported by strong and incontrovertible evidence from the hard experimental data of physiological psychology, whereas the survival hypothesis is supported at best by weak and questionable anecdotal evidence from parapsychology." The author seeks to frame his argument in terms favorable to himself, by obscuring the fact that the quality of evidence supporting the survival hypothesis is irrelevant to supporting his own argument and is therefore a straw man. (A straw man of several rather meaty paragraphs' size, I might add.) One need not prove the survival hypothesis to call the extinction hypothesis into question; in fact the argument that the evidence supporting the survival hypothesis is easily refutable is probably the weakest argument against the author's position that could be conceived.

Since this evidence is a straw man, it follows that the strong evidence put forth as support for the mind/brain identity theory is also a straw man--one big straw man bullying a little one into submission, if you will. While I certainly accept that there is strong evidence for a correlation between the mind and the brain, none of that evidence is evidence that the brain causes the mind. Nor is it evidence that all mental artifacts must have corresponding brain artifacts. As such, it does not support the extinction hypothesis any more than evidence supporting the survival hypothesis supports the theory of immortality.

Strongest arguments against the brain/mind identity theory are purely logical. None of these arguments have been clearly refuted. I find this an open issue, and therefore remain skeptical.

For many people, the concept of self-annihilation is emotionally more easy to accept than the concept of self-ignorance. Perhaps that gives some insight into Augustine's motivation for writing this.
 
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The author's whole case depends on this statement, and I find no evidence to support it. A demonstration is irrefutable, and therefore refutes all arguments to the contrary. This is far from the state of affairs at present, as any perusal of the literature on the mind/brain identity theory will show.

Shows/demonstrate/lead to are often used in non mathematical field to show causality or relationship, even in a non 100% proof. It is not controversial.

The author, after avoiding any mention of the controversial nature of this statement, goes on to say "the extinction hypothesis is supported by strong and incontrovertible evidence from the hard experimental data of physiological psychology, whereas the survival hypothesis is supported at best by weak and questionable anecdotal evidence from parapsychology." The author seeks to frame his argument in terms favorable to himself, by obscuring the fact that the quality of evidence supporting the survival hypothesis is irrelevant to supporting his own argument and is therefore a straw man. (A straw man of several rather meaty paragraphs' size, I might add.) One need not prove the survival hypothesis to call the extinction hypothesis into question; in fact the argument that there exists easily-refutable evidence supporting the survival hypothesis is probably the weakest argument against the author's position that could be conceived.

Since this evidence is a straw man, it follows that the strong evidence put forth as support for the mind/brain identity theory is also a straw man--one big straw man bullying a little one into submission, if you will. While I certainly accept that there is strong evidence for a correlation between the mind and the brain, none of that evidence is evidence that the brain causes the mind. As such, it does not support the extinction hypothesis any more than evidence supporting the survival hypothesis supports the theory of immortality.

Strongest arguments against the brain/mind identity theory are purely logical. None of these arguments have been clearly refuted. I find this an open issue, and therefore remain skeptical.

For many people, the concept of self-annihilation is emotionally more easy to accept than the concept of self-ignorance. Perhaps that gives some insight into Augustine's motivation for writing this.

You haven't brought any evidence contrary to the fact that all conscious and memory process are located in the brain.

"Strongest arguments against the brain/mind identity theory are purely logical" : doubtful. the strongest argument for the brain/mind identity is that there is no evidence of anything beyond the physical brain AND physical modification of the brain influence directly the mind.
 
The author's whole case depends on this statement, and I find no evidence to support it.

No, his case does not depend just on that statement. You seem to have an obsession with the mind/body debate and you bring it into most of your posts. Even if the mind does not = the brain then the "evidence" for NDE is still bogus.

NDE/reincarnation etc etc have been explained by psychology and neuroscience they are not evidence for the survival hypothesis (you can see my other thread for some of this evidence).
 
Heres the best proof that there is no life after death. Somebody dies and unless your prone to hallucination you never see them again.

If you exhume the body its all decayed and in the same posture as when it was buried.

When you place flowers, flags, or pay your respects they never thank you.

Proof they will never come back to you.
 
Let me make this thread more "neutral" by pasting in some articles/papers by believers in immortality or survival:

Belief by Immortality Shakuntala Bora

http://www.unipune.ac.in/snc/cssh/ipq/english/IPQ/26-30 volumes/29-4/PDF/29-4-4.pdf

We may conceive the idea of surviving in some form but should we really call it the continuation of a person? There will be nothing save our awareness of being oneself and our mental continuity to sustain our identity which will need to be cofined to certain boundaries to continue being distinct. Having nothing to confine it to any where one person carries the possibility over overlapping another person and being overlapped. It seems improbable that individual consciousness should continue after the dissolution of the body. It can be concived that consciousness of some sort continues after death but that cannot be individual consciousness. Immortality as person is a myth.

Bora appears to be a Hindu philosopher so his belief that consciousness merges itself into some kind of universal mind so that no ego is left is in line with some Hindu schools of thought and some Buddhist schools. He clearly has biased beliefs on the subject.

Here is a complete opposite point of view by David Fontana who believed that individual consciousness with full personality does survive death.

Does Mind Survive Physical Death? by David Fontana

It is one thing to insist that the evidence for survival is likely to convince anyone who cares to explore it with sufficient care - and if possible to take part in research into this most fascinating and important of areas. It is quite another to say what it is that survives. Some commentators, although largely accepting the fact of survival, confess themselves in doubt as to what aspects of the self survive, given that in the physical world so much of ourselves is experienced as a response to the sensory signals conveyed to us from the physical body. However, judging both by communications through mediums and accounts by those who have had NDEs (to say nothing of the literature from the Western mystery traditions), in the initial stages of survival at least the individual is in possession of all his or her usual faculties. We are even told of a so-called etheric body, which is a replica of the physical body, if made of a finer substance. And the environment - referred to as Summerland by some communicators - closely resembles that of the physical world, with plants and animals much as here.

It is for each individual to read the literature and make of it what he or she will, but one of the important points to arise from these descriptions is that survival is not a uniquely human thing, that in fact all life survives its earthly death (a point which has been confirmed in some DRV communications). This is not difficult to accept. If the life force within us, with all the sense of individuality it develops during its time on Earth, survives the change called death, then it would be both arrogant and unrealistic to assume that the life force in other forms of existence does not also survive.


http://sedna.no.sapo.pt/death_scresearch/pdf_docs/fontana2003.pdf

What Fontana describes sounds amazing and I am sure many of us hope it is true, i.e. some long life (eternal?) in a lovely future world, unfortunately much of Fontana's research was dubious to say the least. He accepted fraud mediums as genuine (even cheesecloth mediums!) and was even duped into believing bogus reports by theosophists were real. Fontana was one the only scientists to believe there was something genuine to the rather fraudulent and silly scole experiments.
 
Shows/demonstrate/lead to are often used in non mathematical field to show causality or relationship, even in a non 100% proof. It is not controversial.
Well, thanks for agreeing that this is a "non-100% proof."
You haven't brought any evidence contrary to the fact that all conscious and memory process are located in the brain.
(As you have already admitted, it isn't a fact. But, we'll call it an assertion.) I don't have to! I'm the skeptic here, and you guys are the believers. I'm only pointing out your evidence is inadequate to prove your position. I don't need to support a contrary position, because I freely admit that the extinction hypothesis may be correct. Every bit as freely as I admit that the survival hypothesis may be correct. So no, you're the one that needs to refute the contrary evidence.
The strongest argument for the brain/mind identity is that there is no evidence of anything beyond the physical brain AND physical modification of the brain influence directly the mind.
Oh, now stop. This is a beginner's error in logic. Actually two beginner's errors in one sentence. If you want to show me to be wrong, then look up "argument from ignorance" and "irrelevant conclusion" (if you need to) and explain why you haven't just given a fine example of each.
 
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No, his case does not depend just on that statement.
You'll be backing that up next, I presume.
You seem to have an obsession with the mind/body debate and you bring it into most of your posts.
Nope, not yet. Ad hominem fallacy. That is, if you're saying that since I'm obsessed with the debate, I'm probably letting my emotions get in the way of my judgment. If not, maybe I'm just making you mad. (That's not my intention. If I sound irritated maybe I am a little. Perhaps I should work on that.)
Even if the mind does not = the brain then the "evidence" for NDE is still bogus. NDE/reincarnation etc etc have been explained by psychology and neuroscience they are not evidence for the survival hypothesis (you can see my other thread for some of this evidence).
Nope, guess you're just going to share some irrelevant conclusions. I already agree with all this. Remember, I'm the skeptic here, not you. I'm not going to accept your first quoted statement as a refutation of mine just because you say that's the way it is.
 
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Heres the best proof that there is no life after death. Somebody dies and unless your prone to hallucination you never see them again.
At least, not until after you're dead.
If you exhume the body its all decayed and in the same posture as when it was buried.
Proving that you left it behind.
When you place flowers, flags, or pay your respects they never thank you.
At least, not until after you're dead.
Proof they will never come back to you.
Of course. You go to them. That's the way it works.
I mean, duh. :)
 

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