Yesterday Aug 26 at about 10:30 PM eastern, I was involved in a discussion with one "Is_James_Randi_A_Liar" at the JREF Chat. I was called in because the guy was typing in Spanish all kind of insults against Randi and obscenities in general. He seemed to be very upset, and unable to communicate well in English.
We had a long and calmed exchange in Spanish, and he said he was pissed with Randi, because in his opinion he (Randi) had lied to a claimant. I'd like to share my findings about the whole thing with all of you who still don't know about it
But first, my apologies to everyone who were in the room at that moment for not making an instant translation of the exchange. I was just unable to, because everything went too fast
.
The principal actors in this story are two different persons:
1) Carlos Swett
2) Is_James_Randi_A_Liar (who seemingly use other nicks in the Chat as well)
The first one is a man from Ecuador who sent an application for the million dollars challenge claiming that a certain paranormal activity took place during the WTC terrorist attacks. You can see the pictures and the notarized application
here. A short movie of the alledged paranormal phenomenon is
here
The second one, Is_James_Randi_A_Liar, is a Chilean person (he/she said so, and I have good reasons to think it's true) who got to know about an e-mail exchange between Swett, Randi and Andrew regarding the application, and became a sort of defender of Swett's case. He started a thread at Skeptics Forum about it, which he/she entitled
WHO KNOWS THIS STORY?
This is, according to the Chilean, the e-mail exchange between Swett, Randi and Andrew, that is at the beginning of the cited thread.
Swett wrote to Randi:
I SEND YOU A CHALLENGE.
YOU RECIEVED IT ON APRIL 4, 2002, THURSDAY´S MORNING.
I HAVE THE GUIDE OF FEDERAL EXPRESS THAT COMFIRMS THAT IS WAS RECIEVED ON THE FOUNDATION.
IF YOU THINK THAT I AM THE SAME KIND OF PEOPLE THAT YOU OFTEN TALK IN YOUR REPPORTS, YOU ARE WRONG. I DON´T BELIEVE IN UFOS OR OTHERS. I AM RATIONALISTIC AND I DEMAND AND ANSWER FROM YOU, THE AUTHORS OF THE CHALLENGE.
DON´T TELL ME THAT YOU DON´T UNDERSTAND MY CONCLUSIONS ( I REMEMBER YOU THAT IN FLORIDA THE SPANISH IS THE SECOND LANGUAGE, IT IS NOT JAPANESSE ). IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO ME TO WRITE YOU IN ENGLISH, BUT I DO MY BEST EFFORT, I GUESS THAT YOU CAN DO THE SAME.
I REMEMBER YOU THE WORDS THAT JAMES RANDI SAID ON A TV PROGRAM: " ES MI DEBER DEMOSTRAR QUE ACONTECIMIENTOS QUE PARECEN SER REALES, EN REALIDAD NO LO SON".
DON´T FORGET TO LOOK IN THRU THE SMOKE THE PARANORMAL ACTIVITY AND THAT WILL SHOWS YOU THE REAL "TRAYECTORIA" OF IT.
FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY.......IF THAT IS YOUR REAL PROBLEM.
CARLOS SWETT
GUAYAQUIL-ECUADOR
Randi replied
Who are you, and what in hell are you raving about?
James Randi
Swett replied
JAMES RANDI,OCTOBER 12, 2001, WEEK´S COMMENTARY:
IMAGINE OF JOHN LENNON:
Imagine there´s no heaven
it´s easy if you try
NO HELL BELOW
above us only sky........"THIS DOES IT FOR ME".....SIGNED JAMES RANDI
........................................................................
I THOUGHT YOU DIDN´T BELIEVE IN HELL,SO WHY YOU SEND ME THERE????????
JUST RELAX, AND INVESTIGATE IN "YOUR FOUNDATION" WHO I AM. REMEMBER I HAVE COPIES OF THE "NOTHARIZED FORM" THAT YOU RECIEVED FROM ECUADOR (NOT THE LINE, IT IS MY COUNTRY IN SOUTHAMERICA), AND ALSO I HAVE THE FEDERAL EXPRESS GUIDE SIGNED BY JREF THAT CONFIRMS THAT IS WAS RECEIVED ON THURSDAY 4 OF APRIL IN THE MORNING.
THIS IS NOT A FIGHT BETWEEN YOU AND CARLOS SWETT, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT YOU MUST KEEP ALL YOUR SENSES CLEAR AND DON´T INSULT ME IN YOUR ANSWERS, PERHAPS YOU HAVE NO INFORMATION ABOUT MY CHALLENGE, OR THEY(JREF) DON´T WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT IT YET(I HOPE THAT).
RAVING=MADNESS????????????
WE ARE NOT MAD PEOPLE, WE ARE WELL EDUCATED, I WAS AN EXCHANGE STUDENT IN THE USA (1969), I WON ARTISTIC CONTEST IN MY COUNTRY, MY FATHER WAS AWARDED
BY THE NATION FOR HIS CULTURAL WORKS AND LIFE, ETC, ETC, ETC...
I REPEAT YOU, I DON´T BELIEVE IN MAGIC, I DON´T BELIEVE IN UFOS, I JUST BELIEVE IN ME..........................................................
POST DATA: YOU ARE A FAN OF JOHN LENNON AND THE BEATLES AS I AM.
CONGRATULATIONS
CARLOS SWETT
GUAYAQUIL-ECUADOR
593-04-2391025
593-04-2391655
Then, Randi wrote
I get hundreds of such pompous claims every week. I don't remember yours. Refresh my memory.
I want to deal with you, make you shut up, and get back to my life.
Andrew enters
We have received your application and video tape. I've seen this tape before and pointed out what was taking place to others.
You have made two assumptions, one following the other. Both are incorrect.
Your first assumption is that the object comes from behind the second tower. This is not the case. I've gone frame by frame through a copy of this video that's available on the Internet. You can clearly see that the object is IN FRONT OF THE TOWERS when you look at it frame by frame. The object is dark and difficult to see at some points against the smoke, but it is there. A bird could certainly be the culprit.
You have no claim. There is nothing supernatural taking place.
Andrew Harter
Researcher
James Randi Educational Foundation
Swett wrote
Subject: RE: JAMES RANDI´S CLOCK UPDATE (12 DAYS)
I AM VERY GLAD AND HAPPY THAT YOU FINALLY ANSWERED MY APPLICATION TO THE ONE MILLION DOLLAR CHALLENGE. THAT MEANS THAT YOU RECIEVED AND ACCEPTED IT, WITH NO OBJECTIONS AS LANGUAGE, NOTARIZED FORMS, ETC., BUT THE CONCLUSIONS YOU MADE ARE VERY POOR AND DEFICIENT.
YOU ARE A LIAR, MR. ANDREW HARTER(JREF RESEARCHER).I HOPE YOU PUT YOUR ANSWER AND MY DEMAND OR CLAIM(THE WHOLE THIRD PAGE OF MY APLICATION THAT EXPLAIN MY DEMAND AND DEMOSTRATION OF THE PARANORMAL ACTIVITY), SO THE
PEOPLE THAT VISIT YOUR WEB PAGE CAN TELL WHO IS LYING.
YOU SAID THAT YOU HAVE SEEN THIS TAPE BEFORE AND POINTED OUT WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE TO OTHERS. ¿WHEN, TO WHO,WHERE, AND WHAT?
YOU SAID THAT I MADE 2 ASSUMPTIONS, ONE FOLLOWING THE OTHER,BOTH INCORRECT.........YOU ARE A LIAR.
I DON`T MADE ASSUMPTIONS, I TOLD YOU ABOUT A PARANORMAL ACTIVITY WITH HAT FORM, THAT IN ITS TRAVELLING AND ITS PATH ACROSS THE SMOKE ENTRY IN THE HOLE OF THE FIRST TOWER AND GET OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TOWER.
YOU SAID THAT MY FIRST ASSUMPTION IS THAT THE OBJECT COMES FROM BEHIND THE SECOND TOWER..........YOU ARE LYING AGAIN. I TOLD YOU IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF MY DEMAND THAT THE PARANORMAL ACTIVITY GIVES A WRONG FIRST IMPRESSION
THAT CAMES FROM BEHIND THE FIRST TOWER.
YOU SAID THAT YOU STUDIED FRAME BY FRAME TO A COPY OF THIS VIDEO THAT IS AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET................ WRONG METHOD. I TOLD YOU THAT MY TAPE IS A REFERENCIAL GUIDE, SO YOU MUST COMPARE WITH THE IMAGES OF TV
NETWORKS IN YOUR COUNTRY. I GIVE YOU A HELP: VISIT TELEMUNDO(FLORIDA) OR THE TV NETWORK THAT YOU PREFER, SO YOU CAN SEE THE PARANORMAL ACTIVITY ON A BIG SCREEN, WITH A BEST RESOLUTION, AND THE BEST TECNOLLOGY EQUIPMENT. YOUR METHOD OF WATCHING THE IMAGE ON A LITTLE COMPUTER OF AN UNKNOWN VIDEO OF THE INTERNET IS NOT THE APPROPIATE.
I AM GLAD THAT NOW YOU CAN SEE "THE DARK OBJECT" AT SOME POINTS AGAINST THE SMOKE, WITH SOME DIFFICULTS, BUT IT IS THERE. THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS.
YOU SAID: A BIRD COULD CERTAINLY BE THE CULPRIT.
¿WHY A BIRD, AND NOT AN INSECT?
¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?
REMEMBER THAT I TOLD YOU ON MY DEMAND THAT IT CAN NOT BE A BIRD OR AN INSECT, BECAUSE THE IMAGE OF IT DOESN`T LAY ON TOP THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE HOLE OF THE FIRST TOWER AND "SEEMS" TO APPEARS FROM BEHIND THE TOWER.
YOU SAID: YOU HAVE NO CLAIM???????????????????????????
YOU SAID: THERE IS SOMETHING SUPERNATURAL TAKING PLACE ??????????????' I SAY: ¿WHO ARE YOU?
I SAY: YOU ARE NOT A REALLY RESEARCHER, YOU DIDN`T DEMONSTRATE NOTHING, YOU ARE LIAR. YOU DON`T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH OR YOU CAN NOT SAY THE TRUTH. YOU
ARE THINKING IN THE MONEY. FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY IF THAT IS YOUR REAL PROBLEM.
DID YOU GAVE THE PERSONAL LETTER TO MR. JAMES RANDI? I GUESS NOT.IT DOESN`T MATTER, NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY MR. RANDI FIRST SEND ME TO HELL, THEN ASKED ME WHO I AM, THEN HE WANTS TO MAKE A DEAL WITH ME TO SHUT ME UP.
WHAT KIND OF DEAL ???????????????????????????????????????
THE CLOCK IS TICKING AGAIN..........................................
I THOUGHT THAT JAMES RANDI AND HIS PEOPLE WERE RATIONALISTIC, BUT I AM BEGGINNING TO THINK DIFFERENT. I SUPPORT YOUR WORK, BUT DON`T LOOSE ENERGY FIGHTING WITH PERSONS THAT DON`T WANT TO CHALLENGE WITH YOU, LIKE SYLVIA BROWNE. USE THAT ENERGY GIVING ME SMARTS ANSWERS.
I GIVE YOU MY EXCUSES FOR MY POOR ENGLISH, BUT I AM DOING MY BEST EFFORT.
REMEMBER, I DON`T BELIEVE IN MAGIC, I DON`T BELIEVE IN UFOS, I DON`T BELIEVE IN "BLACK BIRD", I JUST BELIEVE IN TRUTH.
I AM NOT ALONE.....................................................
I CHALLENGE YOU TO PUT MY ANSWERS OF YOUR CONCLUSION IN YOUR WEB PAGE. I HOPE YOU HAVE THE HONESTY TO DO IT.
CARLOS SWETT
GUAYAQUIL-ECUADOR-SOUTHAMERICA-EARTH
POSTDATA: MR RANDI IF YOU DON`T UNDERSTAND MY CHALLENGE, YOU CAN CALL A REAL TRANSLATOR. I AM GIVING YOU A SECOND CHANCE. I AM NOT HURRY.IF YOU WANT I CAN SEND YOU A COPY OF THE LETTER YOU NEVER RECEIVED.
Swett again,
Subject: Re: REFRESHING YOUR MEMORY
I´m sure that you get hundreds of pompous claims every week, but also I´m sure that you DON´T GET MANY OFICIALS APPLICANTS TO THE CHALLENGE.
Well, I´m that kind of applicant.
Sorry,if your JREF DIDN´T TELL YOU ABOUT IT (?????), that explains why: you send me to hell, don´t remember me ,want to make a deal to shut me up, etc.
I received yesterday an e-mail with the oficial answer (by ANDREW HARTER) for my aplication to the challenge. Is poor, deficient,and full of lies. I HOPE (AS YOU USE TO) YOU PUBLICATE THAT POMPOUS ANSWER IN YOUR WEB PAGE BUT WITH MY NOTHARIZED DEMAND. People will decide who is telling the truth.
I SEND TO YOU(in the same package )a letter giving you aditonal information of my application. Ask for it, if you want,at the JREF.
I admired your work, but don´t loose energies making FREE PUBLICITY(?$) to people(lyke SYLVIA BROWNE)that never applies to the official challenge.
Mr.ANDREW HARTER said that he saw this tape before and pointed out what was taking place to others.
I ASKED IN YOUR WEB PAGE FOR THAT ESPECIFIC COMMENTARY.
RESULTS:NOTHING
¿WHO ARE OTHERS? ¿A SELECTED GROUP?
THE CLOCK IS TICKING AGAIN.........13 DAYS
FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY.....IF THAT IS YOUR REAL PROBLEM.
CARLOS SWETT.-
GUAYAQUIL, ECUADOR
P.S. USE A REAL TRANSLATOR , NOT A VIRTUAL TRANSLATOR.
Randi replied,
Andrew made the right decision, with my approval. What you presented is nothing mysterious.
Your application is closed.
James Randi
Swett
Subject: RESULTS WILL BE SELF-EVIDENT TO ANY OBSERVER.....james randi
THANKS FOR TAKING OFF YOUR MASK. KEEP ON GOING WITH YOUR BUSINESS. YOU WILL NEED IT. YOU DON´T HAVE TO ANSWER THIS E-MAIL....C´est finit...
TIME IS ON MY SIDE.
CARLOS SWETT.-Guayaquil, Ecuador
post data:
RESULTS WILL BE SELF-EVIDENT TO ANY OBSERVER.....james randi
....¨"..Y SIN EMBARGO SE MUEVE".....GALILEO GALILEY
Randi,
Re: JAMES RANDI´S CLOCK UPDATE (12 DAYS)
Go away.
Swett
Subject: THANK YOU LIAR
RESULTS WILL BE SELF- EVIDENT TO ANY OBSERVER......james randi(?????) GO BACK TO YOUR BUSINESS ($$$$$$$)
YOUR CLOCK: 14 DAYS
YOU DON´T NEED TO ANSWER THIS E-MAIL...
CARLOS SWETT.- GUAYAQUIL, ECUADOR .....20/20 (?)
Randi,
Subject: Re: THANK YOU LIAR
Your address has now been blocked.
Swett,
Subject: HI LOSER !
JAMES RANDI:
I WANT TO CHALLENGE YOU AGAIN.
DON¨T WORRY, IT WILL BE IN A DIFFERENT SUBJECT.
THE QUESTION IS : ¿CAN I ?
I DON´T TRUST YOU ANYMORE, SO I NEED YOU TO DEFY ME ON YOUR WEB PAGE AS YOU USE TO WITH OTHERS (LYKE SYLVIA B. AND THE BRASILIAN).
REMEMBER THAT IS VERY SUSPICIOUS THAT AFTER 9 DAYS THAT YOU HAD RECEIVED MY TAPE AND NOTHARIZED APPLICATION AT THE JREF( APRIL 4) , YOU WERE ASKING ME WHO AM I, WHAT THE HELL I WAS RAVING ABOUT, TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE A DEAL WITH ME(?$), AND JUST BECAUSE OF MY FIRST E-MAIL (APRIL 12) DEMANDING YOU AND YOUR FOUNDATION AN ANSWER FOR MY APPLICATION.
IT IS VERY SUSPICIOUS TOO THAT THERE ARE NO COMMENTS ON YOUR WEEK¨S COMMENTAIES ABOUT MY FORMAL CHALLENGE. THERE ARE NO MOCKERY, JOKES, RIDICULE DECEIVE ABOUT MY NOTHARIZED APPLICATION AS YOU USE TO DO WITH OTHERS. WHY NOT?
YOUR SILENCE MEANS A LOT TO ME. GIVES ME AREASON TO BELEIVE I WAS RIGHT ON MY CONCLUSION. YOU LOST JAMES RANDI.
ARE YOU A CHICKEN?
I AM GIVING YOU A SECOND CHANCE. REMEMBER ALSO THAT I DON´T DO IT FOR THE MONEY ,per se; THE MILLION DOLLAR PAPERS WERE GOING TO SHARE BETWEEN THE VICTIMS OF THE TRAGEDY OF NEW YORK AND THE POOR PEOPLE OF MY COUNTRY ( BUILDING SCHOOLS OR SOMETHING LYKE THAT ).REMEMBER: I AM AN ARTIST AND MONEY IS NOT MY PRIORITY. ! LA VERDAD ANTE TODO ¡
I WILL WAIT FOR YOUR ANSWER.
CARLOS SWETT
3 JUNE, 2002
YOUR FIRST CLOCK¨S UPDATE : 60 DAYS
P.D. BE HONEST. SAY HELLO TO ANDREW
I hope this will help to make things clearer on this case.
Mr. Swett repeatedly calls Randi a liar, but I really fail to see where Randi or Andrew may have lied on their replies. IMO Andrew's reply made perfect sense to the case.
I think this is another example of how badly a person (two persons in this case) can delude himself when strong emotions come into play while contemplating a picture. Let's not forget that we had a similar case on the boards, of someone who strongly believed he saw demons on his basement wall
[edited for minor corrections]
[edited for a second time to add a link]
I'm sure I will see latin or Swett in the chat again, but at least now I kinda have a clue as to why they have been freaking out in chat.
