The Bible Code (on the History Channel)

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The History Channel just ran (re-ran?) their History's Mysteries piece on the Bible Code.

As could be expected, they spent about 2 minutes on the guy who found assassinations "hidden" in Moby Dick and the rest of the show showing people claiming up and down that "the chances against these specific words all showing up together in a cluster in the Torah are astronomical!".

No one, not even the Moby Dick guy, was shown making the obvious point that the Bible Code believers don't look for clusters of the specific words they tout as being statistically impossible. They instead look for one word, and then make a matrix out of the surrounding text and circle every word they can find that seems to have even a remote connection to the one word they actually searched for. And best of all, since it's in Hebrew, they don't have to worry about any pesky vowels getting in the way of their fun, which the Moby Dick guy did have to worry about since Moby Dick is in English. I wonder how many good arguments against the Bible Code's validity ended up on the cutting room floor.
 
Yeah, I was pretty amused when the rabbi guy accused the Moby Dick guy of using "parlor tricks." Cause when you find something in the Bible it's obviously divine, when you find it in Moby Dick it's coincidence. :rolleyes:

I also liked it that they immediately went from the guy saying it's a crock to debating whether it was God or Aliens that put the "code" there. Like saying there's nothing to debate and then debating anyway.

Not quite the Fox Moon Hoax level of a hatchet job, but close.

btw, what the heck is the word for airplane in ancient Hebrew??? :D
 
This sounded like it would be worth watching, but after reading the above I think is may be a waist of time. Was it at least entertaining. I'm on the west coast so it will not be on for an hour.
 
I watched it last week, it sucked!! The whole time I was thinking "why don’t they try to unlock the "code" concerning future events". Really, what use is bible code if it just tells us things we already know?
 
Aoidoi said:
btw, what the heck is the word for airplane in ancient Hebrew??? :D
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Not to mention the ancient Hebrew word for "atomic". Or "spaceship".
 
Tony said:
The whole time I was thinking "why don’t they try to unlock the "code" concerning future events". Really, what use is bible code if it just tells us things we already know?
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The show even did a small segment about using the Bible Code to predict the future. Before the November 2000 election, one of the Bible Code "experts" found Al Gore (presumably the Hebrew name for Al Gore) and words meaning something like "Next Leader" close together -- so, he concluded that Al Gore would win the 2000 election and become President.

Now, if Gore had become President, you just know the Bible Code believers would have held this up as an example of the Code's divine power. However, Al Gore didn't become President. So, the "expert" went back and looked at the grid where he'd found Al Gore and Next Leader, and lo and behold, he also found a couple of words that meant "maybe." :rolleyes:
 
Aoidoi said:

I also liked it that they immediately went from the guy saying it's a crock to debating whether it was God or Aliens that put the "code" there. Like saying there's nothing to debate and then debating anyway.
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What is it with these nutcases introducing debates 'debunking' claims that these things might be written by 'aliens'? Anybody remember good ol' Ican and his demon photo's? And that they were definately not aliens?

It's like saying 'These footprints are definately the toothfairy's, and not just an ordinary pixie's.'

Athon
 
Well now that was silly. What got me were the convoluted explanations that the believers had.

The codes can predict the future but you have to wait until the future becomes the past to know if your interpretation of the past was correct, you simply do not know what questions to ask until you have events to use the right words to enter into the matrix.

The only question is why if these codes are real who would qualify to pick up the JREF Million? Would anyone who could read the codes or would it have to be the original author?
 
SRW said:
The only question is why if these codes are real who would qualify to pick up the JREF Million? Would anyone who could read the codes or would it have to be the original author? [/B]
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No one would. It doesn't fit the qualifications. I know you're just being funny, but it's comments like this that confuse people like that guy who thinks he can see demons in pictures. Don't encourage him.
 
scribble said:


No one would. It doesn't fit the qualifications. I know you're just being funny, but it's comments like this that confuse people like that guy who thinks he can see demons in pictures. Don't encourage him.
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So your suggesting that these people are not confused already? I would not be surprised if someone has not already contacted JREF about this.
 
"The Bible Code' is old news. When I first heard about it, several years ago, on tv., I went to the library and checked out the book (took it home). There are pages upon pages of actual illustrations that show past events that have happened. The words of importance are circled; either straight across, diagonally, or up/down. The letter spacings are always equal.

What indeed is fascinating about it is that more than just one word on the subject comes up on a page that doesn't contain all THAT many letters.

For example: Take the Kennedy assassination. On that one page, it will not only say Kennedy, but will include words like assassinated, and Oswald (from my recollection). Or it might say Dallas. That's pretty weird, no matter how you slice it.

I never did check out the validity of the Moby Dick book claim, so I can't comment on that. It just does indeed seem pretty haunting that there can be the NUMBER of words, relating to one past event, that are sequenced, on only one page of letters.

I would recommend you check the book out yourself, and then try to come to some conclusion (if you can).

The part that most troubles ME, is how they are able to translate words like Kennedy and Oswald, from ancient Hebrew (the original Torah...the Torah, being the first 5 books of the old testament which are credited to Moses, for authoring). We have to take the authors word for it, that the words they are sequencing from Hebrew letters, are actual English words when spelled out. You would think that the Hebrew alphabet would be different than the English alphabet. And if it is...how was he (Drosnin) able to get a name like Kennedy out of it. Maybe someone HERE could explain this.

Are there any knowledgable Jews amongst us?

Oh...and do you know what makes this Bible Code business even MORE creepy? It actually says in the Bible's Book of Daniel, ...something to the affect that some knowledge that the Bible holds can only become known at 'the end times'...when knowledge will greatly increase...and all that jazz. Drosnin explains this very thing, and says, that if it weren't for the computer (developed near 'the end times'?), said knowledge would still be 'locked up'. (Another tidbit I will throw in about Daniels prophecy: In the times of the end...men's hearts willl fail them out of fear. Back in the times of the prophecies, and centuries thereafter, life really didn't change much. I would presume that the dispositions of people remained about the same in regards to how much their hearts could take. TODAY though, we are on stress overload...the population increase, the hustle bustle, the worry over money, terrorist attacks, and more. What would have made Daniel think that in the future, things would get WORSE, such that men's hearts woyuld fail them?!
 
Iamme said:
[B What would have made Daniel think that in the future, things would get WORSE, such that men's hearts woyuld fail them?! [/B]
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Until a few hundred years ago, people thought their hearts would fail if they fell from a great height. The first parachute jump disproved that.



Are you saying that the "bible" code is all torah code and there is no English bible code ? Shouldn't there be one ?

I saw part of the show and I could not figure out why it was only the hebrew version... except maybe the lack of most people being able to check it, and looser rules.
 
Hi Teddy. Yes...it is all "Torah' code. The Hebrew letters are used. Drosnin simply translates these for us. We have to take his word for the translating!

What I found strange, also, about the Bible Code, is this claim that you can only 'find' events that have occured. WHY?! Why can't we ask things like "Bush assasination"? And see if it comes up. I could think of lot's of things to have the computer do sequences of, that would pertain to the future. How 'bout Yassir Arafat? I thought that Drosnin was going to do another Bible Code book. I'll have to check that out and see if he is pursuing more 'codes'.

An example of one I am making up, but is atypical:" Terror in city....great towers collapse." If that was in there...what would you think?! The prime minister of Israel, that was assassinated, is in there, and says about assaination. Kennedy is in there, and says either about assassination, and/or Oswald, and/or Dallas. There are MANY interesting codes in there. They are quite explicit. They wouldn't just say, "Towers collapse". For true validation, the code includes names of where, or who...stuff like that...so you know that is the event that they are talking about.
 
Iamme said:
What indeed is fascinating about it is that more than just one word on the subject comes up on a page that doesn't contain all THAT many letters.

For example: Take the Kennedy assassination. On that one page, it will not only say Kennedy, but will include words like assassinated, and Oswald (from my recollection). Or it might say Dallas. That's pretty weird, no matter how you slice it.

I never did check out the validity of the Moby Dick book claim, so I can't comment on that. It just does indeed seem pretty haunting that there can be the NUMBER of words, relating to one past event, that are sequenced, on only one page of letters.
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It sounds pretty eerie ... until you realize how they go about the search.

They don't look for "Kennedy" and "Oswald" or "Kennedy" and "Dallas". They just look for Kennedy. Then, when they come up with a grid of Hebrew letters that contains "Kennedy" at some skip-length spacing, they do a word search for any other terms in the same grid that are even remotely connected to "Kennedy" in some way. If "Dallas" is in there, they circle it. If "killed" is in there, they circle it. If "Jackie" is in there, they circle it. If "leader" or "president" is in there, they circle it. If "Cuba" or "missile" or "bay" or "pigs" or "Harvard" are in there, they circle 'em.

Yes, the odds of "Kennedy" and "Dallas" happening to appear together in the same grid are infinitessimal. However, the odds of "Kennedy" and any other word related to Kennedy showing up in the same grid are much, much higher.

The part that most troubles ME, is how they are able to translate words like Kennedy and Oswald, from ancient Hebrew (the original Torah...the Torah, being the first 5 books of the old testament which are credited to Moses, for authoring). We have to take the authors word for it, that the words they are sequencing from Hebrew letters, are actual English words when spelled out. You would think that the Hebrew alphabet would be different than the English alphabet. And if it is...how was he (Drosnin) able to get a name like Kennedy out of it.
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My understanding is, Drosnin used the names for these people as they appear in modern Hebrew-language newspapers.

A very important point to note is that written Hebrew contains no vowels. This means they're not really searching for "KENNEDY", they're just searching for "KNNDY", which is a couple of letters shorter and is therefore much more likely to occur by chance.
 
Wow, if all these predictions are found in the Bible, shouldn't we be able to prevent wars, trajedies, win lotteries, found missing people...

I'm only impressed when these prophecies are discovered before the event...
 
Yahweh---Yes....alot of 'predictions' about the past.:D

After reviewing the book and trying to comprehend the meaning behind it, and pondering if God is toying with us.....toying with us because he thinks we are egotistical, or something...that MAYBE, if we read the Bible backwards, it will say, "The Beatles were a figment of your imagination!"

And I do recommend to everyone that you check out the book. Maybe a website about it. The authors name is Michael Drosnin. I still remember it. The book is called, "The Bible Code". But as I said....we rely heavily on he and his cohert in interpreting for us what the Hebrew letters are in English. And I have a problem with... if this can always be done. This is something which I never understood, nor heard explained.
 
Yeah. Just consider the multitude of names, places, words, events, etc. the bible code people have to work with when doing these searches. Its not suprising at all that they can find so many matches with all the possible cominations available. In fact, you would expect it.



tracer said:

It sounds pretty eerie ... until you realize how they go about the search.

They don't look for "Kennedy" and "Oswald" or "Kennedy" and "Dallas". They just look for Kennedy. Then, when they come up with a grid of Hebrew letters that contains "Kennedy" at some skip-length spacing, they do a word search for any other terms in the same grid that are even remotely connected to "Kennedy" in some way. If "Dallas" is in there, they circle it. If "killed" is in there, they circle it. If "Jackie" is in there, they circle it. If "leader" or "president" is in there, they circle it. If "Cuba" or "missile" or "bay" or "pigs" or "Harvard" are in there, they circle 'em.

Yes, the odds of "Kennedy" and "Dallas" happening to appear together in the same grid are infinitessimal. However, the odds of "Kennedy" and any other word related to Kennedy showing up in the same grid are much, much higher.


My understanding is, Drosnin used the names for these people as they appear in modern Hebrew-language newspapers.

A very important point to note is that written Hebrew contains no vowels. This means they're not really searching for "KENNEDY", they're just searching for "KNNDY", which is a couple of letters shorter and is therefore much more likely to occur by chance.
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Renfield said:
Yeah. Just consider the multitude of names, places, words, events, etc. the bible code people have to work with when doing these searches. Its not suprising at all that they can find so many matches with all the possible cominations available. In fact, you would expect it.
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Also we have only one man word for it apperently, so we do not reallly know how accurate the translations are. This is espcially suspicous when it is only dealing with past events. When you know what results you want it would seem much simpler to find them.

One of the people on the program (didn't catch his name) kept refering to his computer program, that was finding the matches
it would be very intresting to see what that program is actually doing.
 
The way the "research" is done, IMHO, it will always come with some "significant" result for a simple reason- biased data selection. Lets see if the Bible says something about mankind reaching the Moon... They make a search for "moon", and chances are they´ll find "man" and "bird" (and even interpret it as meaning "eagle"- oh, you know, wings, beaks and feathers, after all) and "fire"-> I SEE THE LIGHT! Its a prediction about men landing on the Moon on a fire eagle, it has to be the rocket that placed the Eagle lander on course towards the Moon! The truth is that all the data (words) that did not fit their hypothesis are dumped (much more words that have nothing to do with the issue, say, "fish", "olive", etc).

And they would certainly find predictions about the shuttle disasters, USA´s war against Iraq, last world soccer cup results and so on... And probably they would also find prophecies on Danielle Steel´s books...

There´s another thing that must be taken in to account-

In terms of historical significance, why there are so many "landmarks" in the XX and XXI centuries? For example, was Kennedy´s death so important that God wrote about it?
 
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