cantonear1968
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2009
- Messages
- 1,657
Hello everyone and welcome to my first thread. I had someone post "the A-Z of 911 high treason and planned mass murder" on youtube and these were my responses. I wanted to offer, on here, short, clear debunking rebuttals to many, but certainly not all, of the most common talking points coming out the truther movement.
I am not naive enough to believe this covers everything nor delusional enough to think I can fool you into believing this was all my own work. Many thanks goes to the work done by Mike Williams at 911myths.com, Mark Roberts at http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/ and many of the posters here at JREF.
Some of the more astute among you will notice that there is no N) in the list. This was not my mistake but it does offer an opportunity for truthers and debunkers alike to offer their own questions and/or rebuttals to the list. Please just remember to form your question/rebuttal in the form of a sentence beginning with the letter N!
Lastly, errors in spelling/grammar in the questions are from the original poster. It's not my place to correct someone else's mistakes. At least as it pertains to spelling!
The ABC's of 9/11 Debunking:
a) a boing 757 doesnt fit in a 16 foot hole at the pentagon with intact windows above
Yes, but the 12 ft-in-diameter fuselage does. And if you check out the Pentagon Performance Report, you will see damage from the wings as far as 50ft from the entry hole.
b) freefall speed implosion of WTC 1,2 & 7 zero resistence of massive building.
The Towers did not fall in free fall accel. The debris falling away and ahead of the collapse zone should tell you this. WTC7 had one phase of free fall because the outer exterior finally failed after 8 floors had collapsed inside.
c) suspicious power shutdown prior to 911 in wtc 1&2 → the demolition setup
A story from one source that claimed it was on 50 floors of one building. How do they wire both buildings (+WTC7) if only one was "powered down"?
d) pools of molten metal in basement of Wtc 1,2 & 7 = thermite
There are 10 metals common to the WTCs that have melting temps lower than the expected temps of the debris pile. Only truthers find this supsicious.
e) thermite traces on ground zero = proof of explosives
Actually it's not "thermite" anymore but "nanothermite". And with 20 procedural errors in the Harrit/Jones paper, it's far from proven. And even they are not claiming it defeated steel but was used as an ignitor for conventional explosives. Of which, there is no evidence to suggest explosives were used.
f) massive steelframe building collapse because of fire? ? ?
on 911 it happened the 1st time 2nd time and 3rd time in history
never happened before or after 9/11
Kader Toy Factory and The Windsor Tower in Madrid had steel fail due to fire. The entire steel framed upper floors collapsed but the concrete core kept it from collapsing completely.
g) 9 of 19 hijackers prooved to be still alive!!
Story that circulated in early 2002 and just as quickly dismissed. Proven to be people with similiar names as the hijackers or identities stolen by the hijackers.
h) no plane, no fire, no lugage in shanksville → why?
Lots of evidence in Shankesville. 95% of the plane was recovered, some of it 30ft underground and all passengers identified using DNA. That's according to coroner Wally Miller who's "no blood" comment is often taken out of context. (out of context quotes seems to be all the truthers have)
i) over 100 eyewitnesses heard Explosions ignored by 911 commission
Lots of things explode in a fire; firefighters will tell you that. To this day, I am not aware of any first responders who are on record as saying that explosives brought down the buildings.
j) FBI confiscates 80! survailance tapes around pentagon → why?
False story (sound familiar) from truthers. FBI agent Jaqueline McGuire, while answering a FOIA request, listed all videos covered under that request, as she had to by law. Virtually all do not show the crash. Only the 3 videos which have been released show the impact, none of which are good quality.
k) silverstein: We pulled it! → aha!
Simply the dumbest of truther arguments! That he would go on national tv and admit to insurance fraud is stretching beyond believability. He was referring to firefighting efforts, as shown by the sentence immediately preceding the "pull it" line, which was "We've had such terrible loss of life".
l) bush saw 1st plane hit on 911– how could he? it wasnt released until 12/9?
Bush is an idiot and misspoke. Who needs further proof Bush is an idiot?
m) cheney in command of norad on 911– no interception for 80! minutes → sic!
Cheney not in Charge of NORAD. Cheney was in charge of the Office of National Preparedness which provided equipment and training for first reponders. NORAD was only notified of the hijackings BEFORE crashes in one case; the first plane to hit the WTC. In the other 3 cases NORAD was notified of the hijackings only after the planes had crashed.
o) heavy explosion in the lobby prior to collapse → why
The elevator lines were cut sending it plunging to the basement and a fireball from the jet fuel travelled down the shaft.
p) we need a new pearl harbor to speed up the NWO agenda
Well, NWO is never mentioned (probably because it doesn't exist!), but in the PNAC paper they were referring to keeping ahead of the world technologically, not invading countries.
q) pyroclastic flow with pulverized concrete = Explosives !
So you think a volcano exploded? A cute term applied incorrectly because it sounds sexy. And there was over 100,000 lbs/sqr inch of pressure during the collapses. That will certainly pulverize some, but definitely not all concrete.
r) building 7 collapse at freefall speed → why?
Already explained. A whole report has been written on WTC7 which also explain the free fall acceleration. What specifically, scientifically, do you find incorrect about this?
s)45 degree cutted corebeams (exact as ong as needed for transport) → controlled demolition
Exactly. Beams cut at 45 degrees during clean up in certain lengths for the transport trucks. Very good!
t) BBC anounces WTC7 collapse 15 minutes before it happened → why?
News reports on WTC7 possibly collapsing had been going out on the AP wire for several hours. Either a wrong report got sent or the BBC jumped the gun. Not the first time it happened. ABC reported that James Brady died when he was shot with Reagan. Turned out not to be true.
u)quick removement of all evidence at WTC & Pentagon → Why ?
Define quick! The first days were spent on a recovery mission. Then WTC debris was taken to Fresh Kills Landfill where it was thoroughly examined. After 5 months, after investigators had been through it, that which was not needed was sent for recycling, as per normal procedures.
v)mohamed Atta on the CIA paylist.
Hadn't heard this one before, but I'm sure if I looked hard enough it would turn out to be ********. Tell you what, you can have this one. I don't need it.
w)no vortex turbolences from jetengine visible
Who is expert enough on the scene to make this determination?
x)marvin bush securacom director for WTC until 2000 → hmm?
Securacom was never in charge of security for WTCs, Port Authority is, who lost about 50 members that day.
y)bush & bin ladens partner in company called carlyle group → aha!
Well documented that the bin Ladens had nothing to do with Osama for many years (after all, he was 1 of 50 children).
z)no windows & no logos on planes → why?
An observation made from close to a mile away. Many people at the Pentagon were able to determine an AA logo on the plane that struck.
I am not naive enough to believe this covers everything nor delusional enough to think I can fool you into believing this was all my own work. Many thanks goes to the work done by Mike Williams at 911myths.com, Mark Roberts at http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/ and many of the posters here at JREF.
Some of the more astute among you will notice that there is no N) in the list. This was not my mistake but it does offer an opportunity for truthers and debunkers alike to offer their own questions and/or rebuttals to the list. Please just remember to form your question/rebuttal in the form of a sentence beginning with the letter N!
Lastly, errors in spelling/grammar in the questions are from the original poster. It's not my place to correct someone else's mistakes. At least as it pertains to spelling!
The ABC's of 9/11 Debunking:
a) a boing 757 doesnt fit in a 16 foot hole at the pentagon with intact windows above
Yes, but the 12 ft-in-diameter fuselage does. And if you check out the Pentagon Performance Report, you will see damage from the wings as far as 50ft from the entry hole.
b) freefall speed implosion of WTC 1,2 & 7 zero resistence of massive building.
The Towers did not fall in free fall accel. The debris falling away and ahead of the collapse zone should tell you this. WTC7 had one phase of free fall because the outer exterior finally failed after 8 floors had collapsed inside.
c) suspicious power shutdown prior to 911 in wtc 1&2 → the demolition setup
A story from one source that claimed it was on 50 floors of one building. How do they wire both buildings (+WTC7) if only one was "powered down"?
d) pools of molten metal in basement of Wtc 1,2 & 7 = thermite
There are 10 metals common to the WTCs that have melting temps lower than the expected temps of the debris pile. Only truthers find this supsicious.
e) thermite traces on ground zero = proof of explosives
Actually it's not "thermite" anymore but "nanothermite". And with 20 procedural errors in the Harrit/Jones paper, it's far from proven. And even they are not claiming it defeated steel but was used as an ignitor for conventional explosives. Of which, there is no evidence to suggest explosives were used.
f) massive steelframe building collapse because of fire? ? ?
on 911 it happened the 1st time 2nd time and 3rd time in history
never happened before or after 9/11
Kader Toy Factory and The Windsor Tower in Madrid had steel fail due to fire. The entire steel framed upper floors collapsed but the concrete core kept it from collapsing completely.
g) 9 of 19 hijackers prooved to be still alive!!
Story that circulated in early 2002 and just as quickly dismissed. Proven to be people with similiar names as the hijackers or identities stolen by the hijackers.
h) no plane, no fire, no lugage in shanksville → why?
Lots of evidence in Shankesville. 95% of the plane was recovered, some of it 30ft underground and all passengers identified using DNA. That's according to coroner Wally Miller who's "no blood" comment is often taken out of context. (out of context quotes seems to be all the truthers have)
i) over 100 eyewitnesses heard Explosions ignored by 911 commission
Lots of things explode in a fire; firefighters will tell you that. To this day, I am not aware of any first responders who are on record as saying that explosives brought down the buildings.
j) FBI confiscates 80! survailance tapes around pentagon → why?
False story (sound familiar) from truthers. FBI agent Jaqueline McGuire, while answering a FOIA request, listed all videos covered under that request, as she had to by law. Virtually all do not show the crash. Only the 3 videos which have been released show the impact, none of which are good quality.
k) silverstein: We pulled it! → aha!
Simply the dumbest of truther arguments! That he would go on national tv and admit to insurance fraud is stretching beyond believability. He was referring to firefighting efforts, as shown by the sentence immediately preceding the "pull it" line, which was "We've had such terrible loss of life".
l) bush saw 1st plane hit on 911– how could he? it wasnt released until 12/9?
Bush is an idiot and misspoke. Who needs further proof Bush is an idiot?
m) cheney in command of norad on 911– no interception for 80! minutes → sic!
Cheney not in Charge of NORAD. Cheney was in charge of the Office of National Preparedness which provided equipment and training for first reponders. NORAD was only notified of the hijackings BEFORE crashes in one case; the first plane to hit the WTC. In the other 3 cases NORAD was notified of the hijackings only after the planes had crashed.
o) heavy explosion in the lobby prior to collapse → why
The elevator lines were cut sending it plunging to the basement and a fireball from the jet fuel travelled down the shaft.
p) we need a new pearl harbor to speed up the NWO agenda
Well, NWO is never mentioned (probably because it doesn't exist!), but in the PNAC paper they were referring to keeping ahead of the world technologically, not invading countries.
q) pyroclastic flow with pulverized concrete = Explosives !
So you think a volcano exploded? A cute term applied incorrectly because it sounds sexy. And there was over 100,000 lbs/sqr inch of pressure during the collapses. That will certainly pulverize some, but definitely not all concrete.
r) building 7 collapse at freefall speed → why?
Already explained. A whole report has been written on WTC7 which also explain the free fall acceleration. What specifically, scientifically, do you find incorrect about this?
s)45 degree cutted corebeams (exact as ong as needed for transport) → controlled demolition
Exactly. Beams cut at 45 degrees during clean up in certain lengths for the transport trucks. Very good!
t) BBC anounces WTC7 collapse 15 minutes before it happened → why?
News reports on WTC7 possibly collapsing had been going out on the AP wire for several hours. Either a wrong report got sent or the BBC jumped the gun. Not the first time it happened. ABC reported that James Brady died when he was shot with Reagan. Turned out not to be true.
u)quick removement of all evidence at WTC & Pentagon → Why ?
Define quick! The first days were spent on a recovery mission. Then WTC debris was taken to Fresh Kills Landfill where it was thoroughly examined. After 5 months, after investigators had been through it, that which was not needed was sent for recycling, as per normal procedures.
v)mohamed Atta on the CIA paylist.
Hadn't heard this one before, but I'm sure if I looked hard enough it would turn out to be ********. Tell you what, you can have this one. I don't need it.
w)no vortex turbolences from jetengine visible
Who is expert enough on the scene to make this determination?
x)marvin bush securacom director for WTC until 2000 → hmm?
Securacom was never in charge of security for WTCs, Port Authority is, who lost about 50 members that day.
y)bush & bin ladens partner in company called carlyle group → aha!
Well documented that the bin Ladens had nothing to do with Osama for many years (after all, he was 1 of 50 children).
z)no windows & no logos on planes → why?
An observation made from close to a mile away. Many people at the Pentagon were able to determine an AA logo on the plane that struck.
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