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Tesla Model X - Electric Vehicle

Davo said:
Keen follower of electric vehicle progress particularly Tesla motors.

Latest model X has just been released, some very impressive stats 0-60 in 5 secs for a 4WD.

http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx
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These are getting very impressive! I'm more interested in range than performance, ie can I get to work and back on one charge, and I note the Model S does around 300 miles per charge which is definitely practical.

Price is normally the blocker then but even that is getting better: $50k (approx £35k) is cheaper than many of the 'higher end' cars. Still way too expensive for me but definitely moving in the right direction and mass production could slash that.

That's a very nice looking 7 seater though...
 
Stoopid gullwing doors. Good luck being able to open them in a UK parking space

As always with electric vehicles it's going to come down to range.

......eta

Didn't realise they were Falcon doors and might work in a UK parking space. UK garages on the other hand maybe not so much
 
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The Don said:
As always with electric vehicles it's going to come down to range.
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Indeed. Interesting that their site makes a big fuss about how it looks, but says nothing whatsoever about range or charging time. Given that it seems to have the same options for batteries but is likely to be heavier than the S, I'd guess it's going to be around 200-250 miles. I did like this bit though:
WHOA.
Falcon Wings. Calling them doors would be an understatement.
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No, I'm pretty sure calling them doors would be as accurate as you could possibly get. Seriously, you're trying to pretty much create an entire new paradigm for cars by making electric cars finally practical for the ordinary person. Doors are really not the major selling point here. Perhaps you'd like to point out that it has wheels as well? I've heard they're terribly popular on cars these days as well.
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
These are getting very impressive! I'm more interested in range than performance, ie can I get to work and back on one charge, and I note the Model S does around 300 miles per charge which is definitely practical.

Price is normally the blocker then but even that is getting better: $50k (approx £35k) is cheaper than many of the 'higher end' cars. Still way too expensive for me but definitely moving in the right direction and mass production could slash that.

That's a very nice looking 7 seater though...
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The Model S does 160 miles per charge for the base model.
With an optional larger battery pack it does 230 miles.
With another optional much larger pack, it does 300 miles.
The latter two being at greater cost and weight.
 
LTC8K6 said:
The Model S does 160 miles per charge for the base model.
With an optional larger battery pack it does 230 miles.
With another optional much larger pack, it does 300 miles.
The latter two being at greater cost and weight.
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It eludes me why these don't exist as a generator-hybrid version. (Petrol + Electric engine, petrol engine is only used to power a generator for the electric engine)
 
It eludes me why these don't exist as a generator-hybrid version. (Petrol + Electric engine, petrol engine is only used to power a generator for the electric engine)
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There are a couple of reasons why petrol-electric engines are not a good solution.

1. Ideological. The idea of an electric vehicle is to get away from using oil/petrol. Though hybrids use less of it, they still use a diminishing resource.

2. Weight. The battery contributes the most weight in an electric vehicle. The motor contributes the most weight in a gas powered vehicle. Combining the two adds a lot of weight and takes up a lot of space.


In the end, the only problem with electric vehicles is the battery. Petrol/gasoline has a far greater energy density than any battery. Solve that and electric vehicles become far more useful than the gas powered ones. It does seem as though Tesla Motors has made some serious inroads into that field.
 
Fishstick said:
It eludes me why these don't exist as a generator-hybrid version.
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Three reasons spring to mind.

1) All-electric has no local emissions. All emissions occur at the generation plant, and because this is very large (compared to a car's engine), it is practical to apply all sorts of emission controls which are uneconomic on a small scale. In the limit, you might consider CO2 sequestration.

2) In the short term, electricity prices are not nearly as volatile as gasoline or diesel.

3) Even allowing for distribution losses, the very large scale differences between local/central power generation, combined with the efficiencies gained by not having to support a gasoline distribution infrasturcture, make electric vehicles considerably cheaper, at least in terms of energy cost. Part of the savings on electric infrastructure arise from the fact that it will get built anyways to support lighting and industry.
 
There's really only one thing that needs fixing: don't live hundreds of miles away from where you work. Then there are other forms of transportation (including borrowing or renting a gas-powerd car) for when you do need to travel far.
 
I've sat in the S class. Nice car. Ridiculous amount of space inside it. It's interesting when you don't have to worry about an Engine. However, inexpensive, it is not. The upper end with the 300 mile range battery is about $70k, I believe. So it good for moderate-long trips, but cross country drives would still be an issue unless there are fast charging stations along your route... which don't really exist yet, though Tesla is trying to invest in some charging stations so their cars would be a viable alternative for long range drives.
 
Shalamar said:
I've sat in the S class. Nice car. Ridiculous amount of space inside it. It's interesting when you don't have to worry about an Engine. However, inexpensive, it is not. The upper end with the 300 mile range battery is about $70k, I believe. So it good for moderate-long trips, but cross country drives would still be an issue unless there are fast charging stations along your route... which don't really exist yet, though Tesla is trying to invest in some charging stations so their cars would be a viable alternative for long range drives.
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The other batteries are still in development, IIRC. As is the swappable battery system.

Fast charging the battery shortens it's life.

Plus, Tesla has that "Brick" problem if you forget to charge the battery. Let the battery get too low, and that's that. You own a brick. :D
 
This beats the crap out of a Chevy Volt at $40,000 IMO.

LTC8K6 said:
The other batteries are still in development, IIRC. As is the swappable battery system.

Fast charging the battery shortens it's life.

Plus, Tesla has that "Brick" problem if you forget to charge the battery. Let the battery get too low, and that's that. You own a brick. :D
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Doubling the voltage from 120 to 240 decreases the charge time by > 50%. I've never heard that reducing the charge time would decrease the life of a battery. Do you have any aritcles about that?

My petro car suffers from the same brick phenomena.
 
LTC8K6 said:
The other batteries are still in development, IIRC. As is the swappable battery system.

Fast charging the battery shortens it's life.

Plus, Tesla has that "Brick" problem if you forget to charge the battery. Let the battery get too low, and that's that. You own a brick. :D
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When I was at the Tesla Dealership, they didn't mention the swappable batteries. So I assume that they're not done. But you can spend more for the higher capacity batteries. Mind you, since the S class hasn't hit the roads, save for the prototypes, it's possible that the bigger batteries aren't ready.

As for the 'brick' issue. Well, you can say that about any car, runs out of fuel, you have a brick, and you need to get it towed to be refueled. Admittedly, 5 minutes for a gas vehicle vs a few hours for the Tesla...
 
WhatRoughBeast said:
Three reasons spring to mind.

1) All-electric has no local emissions. All emissions occur at the generation plant, and because this is very large (compared to a car's engine), it is practical to apply all sorts of emission controls which are uneconomic on a small scale. In the limit, you might consider CO2 sequestration.

2) In the short term, electricity prices are not nearly as volatile as gasoline or diesel.

3) Even allowing for distribution losses, the very large scale differences between local/central power generation, combined with the efficiencies gained by not having to support a gasoline distribution infrasturcture, make electric vehicles considerably cheaper, at least in terms of energy cost. Part of the savings on electric infrastructure arise from the fact that it will get built anyways to support lighting and industry.
Click to expand...

While your points are true, I see petrol-generator-hybrids as a good compromise between all-electric with very limited range, and plugin hybrids which take multiple hours to charge.

Other than the charge rate, infrastructure is a big factor for making all-electric plugin cars viable due to limited battery capacity, but it's locked in a catch-22. A lot of places don't install plugin points because there's no demand, and very little people buy plugins because there's no infrastructure. Some cities (Amsterdam, I think, has a crapload of parkingspaces now with points for plug-in cars). Could a petrol-generator electric car with a plugin capability not bridge the gap here? In theory, it's a better choice than a prius, for example.
 
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The Don said:
Stoopid gullwing doors. Good luck being able to open them in a UK parking space

As always with electric vehicles it's going to come down to range.

......eta

Didn't realise they were Falcon doors and might work in a UK parking space. UK garages on the other hand maybe not so much
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Agreed! Gull wing or Falcon wing, either way it's smashing into something in my garage. Now THIS, on the other hand, would fit perfectly!!
 
The Don said:
Stoopid gullwing doors. Good luck being able to open them in a UK parking space

As always with electric vehicles it's going to come down to range.

......eta

Didn't realise they were Falcon doors and might work in a UK parking space. UK garages on the other hand maybe not so much
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like they go too far past the side of the car...
 
And remember that the Volt was supposed to be all electric, but the 400# battery only had the range of ONE gallon of gas? 26 miles? And an 8 hour recharge. So they HAD to go to hybrid.

And it's not as if we have electricity to burn, the grid overloads now. Or that power plants are absolutely clean.

Nah. Electric cars are still smoke and mirrors, bread and circuses for the masses.
 
Fishstick said:
While your points are true, I see petrol-generator-hybrids as a good compromise between all-electric with very limited range, and plugin hybrids which take multiple hours to charge.

Other than the charge rate, infrastructure is a big factor for making all-electric plugin cars viable due to limited battery capacity, but it's locked in a catch-22. A lot of places don't install plugin points because there's no demand, and very little people buy plugins because there's no infrastructure. Some cities (Amsterdam, I think, has a crapload of parkingspaces now with points for plug-in cars). Could a petrol-generator electric car with a plugin capability not bridge the gap here? In theory, it's a better choice than a prius, for example.
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here you go
http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/en-us
 
By "brick" I mean "in need of a very expensive replacement battery that is not covered under warranty".

Leaving a Tesla unplugged for long enough to get the battery below a certain charge point, kills the battery permanently.

Not like a regular car running out of gasoline at all. You can't even move the car because the wheels will not turn.

The Tesla brick problem has been all over the internet recently.

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem
 
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