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Teen Parents/ Parenting

SteveHamilton

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Apr 14, 2011
Messages
62
Is it wrong? Think about it, not more then 200+ years ago, it was natural for a 12/13 year old girl to have an arranged marrage, 400+ years ago, most girls were moms around the age of 15. They all seemed to turn out fine for the most part, seeing if the country they were in wasnt in an economic downfall...
The reason they(teen parents frowned apon)are in bad shape today is because of how long we go to school, versus what we have in the past, and we cant even work till we are 16, with a permit that doesnt give a good enough check(US is having very bad job issues atm if you havent noticed).

Now for Parenting, yesterday, I saw a woman raise here voice, and wave her hand at her 7 year oldish, for acting up in a public place, (like damaging stuff, and screaming his lungs out), and her child was taken away from her by a nearby police officer for "endangering the welfare of a child"....BS!!!! I personally believe its disciplin to a point. As long as there isnt blood, you should be able to hit your child for doing wrong, otherwise we are endangering the welfare of out society. Dont get me wrong, but I realized that the reason these laws are being passed are because these idiots remember their parents backhanding them across the room, and the second one of those guys get into power "no more child abuse" =p. I cant help but laugh at what is happening to our country, and this is one of the reasons, along with selling our jobs to China (coughWalmartcough).

Opinions? Explanations? Anything?
 
Professor Yaffle said:
Do you think any of those girls/women had happy lives? Or is just surviving and producing a bunch of kids ok for you?
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Some did just depends on their position at that time(<10%), some didnt. I can say for certain though that it should be up to the person. The only reason they dont these days, are mainly because of child labor laws, because their parents cant support them, and the kids cant work. While I agree that 0-13 year olds shouldnt be working in a dangerous area, there are a few things they can do that isnt. I can say from personal experience, if I could have worked when I was 12, I would still see both my parents.
Can you say many people today are happy with their lives? I can vouch they dont, seeing how the average marrage last maybe 10 years, suicide rates off the charts, and every mental hospital in NY state is full. You have a great percentage of people in debt, another percentage addicted to lethal drugs. Is the world today better then before? Im pretty sure China would say no, every highschooler ive talked to in the last 4 years hates their lives, 4 of which commited suicide. The happiest people ive seen lately are those with kids, and goals, and a lot of support, me being one of them.
What if we could combine some of the efforts we have made to this day, with the lifestyles of the past?
 
Spend a day in a high school and get back to us on the child parenting.

And are you honestly saying the only indication a child is hit too hard is if there is blood? Never mind the black eye and the bruises, suck it up and do what your mom and dad tell you!

I think the welfare of a society is in greater danger if if relies on violence as the primary method in teaching acceptable behavior.
 
We live much longer than 200 years ago. There's no pressure to reproduce ASAP. A step forward in human flourishing IMO.
 
As to parenting, the moment you raise your hand to strike a kid is the moment your mental faculties are proven inadequate. You are unfit to raise children in our societies.
 
SteveHamilton said:
Some did just depends on their position at that time(<10%), some didnt. I can say for certain though that it should be up to the person. The only reason they dont these days, are mainly because of child labor laws, because their parents cant support them, and the kids cant work. While I agree that 0-13 year olds shouldnt be working in a dangerous area, there are a few things they can do that isnt. I can say from personal experience, if I could have worked when I was 12, I would still see both my parents.
Can you say many people today are happy with their lives? I can vouch they dont, seeing how the average marrage last maybe 10 years, suicide rates off the charts, and every mental hospital in NY state is full. You have a great percentage of people in debt, another percentage addicted to lethal drugs. Is the world today better then before? Im pretty sure China would say no, every highschooler ive talked to in the last 4 years hates their lives, 4 of which commited suicide. The happiest people ive seen lately are those with kids, and goals, and a lot of support, me being one of them.
What if we could combine some of the efforts we have made to this day, with the lifestyles of the past?
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Are you really saying that 13 year-olds would be happier if they could work menial jobs and breed as early as possible? How would they be able to fulfill their goals if this was the case. (Unless of course, their goals included raising a houseful of kids on minimum wage?)
 
gph said:
As to parenting, the moment you raise your hand to strike a kid is the moment your mental faculties are proven inadequate. You are unfit to raise children in our societies.
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Don't agree entirely with that. I'd say its the moment you need to seek help in learning some stress reduction techniques or new strategies for parenting.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
Don't agree entirely with that. I'd say its the moment you need to seek help in learning some stress reduction techniques or new strategies for parenting.
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So you see them as possibly fit to parent in the future. Ok, but when they are hitting their kid they most certainly are not.
 
SteveHamilton said:
Is it wrong? Think about it, not more then 200+ years ago, it was natural for a 12/13 year old girl to have an arranged marrage, 400+ years ago, most girls were moms around the age of 15. They all seemed to turn out fine for the most part, seeing if the country they were in wasnt in an economic downfall...
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Yes, the fact that people back then believed that it wasn't possible to rape one's wife and women were denied education and the ability to live on their own... Other than all that, they turned out fine.

The reason they(teen parents frowned apon)are in bad shape today is because of how long we go to school, versus what we have in the past, and we cant even work till we are 16, with a permit that doesnt give a good enough check(US is having very bad job issues atm if you havent noticed).
Click to expand...

Most careers today require more education than knowing one's ABCs. And I honestly don't think that is why it is frowned upon. I think it has more to do with "loose women" or trepidation for the future of the child.

Now for Parenting, yesterday, I saw a woman raise here voice, and wave her hand at her 7 year oldish, for acting up in a public place, (like damaging stuff, and screaming his lungs out), and her child was taken away from her by a nearby police officer for "endangering the welfare of a child"....BS!!!!
Click to expand...

Yes, I also doubt the veracity of this tale.

I personally believe its disciplin to a point. As long as there isnt blood, you should be able to hit your child for doing wrong, otherwise we are endangering the welfare of out society. Dont get me wrong, but I realized that the reason these laws are being passed are because these idiots remember their parents backhanding them across the room, and the second one of those guys get into power "no more child abuse" =p.
Click to expand...

Thank you for poisoning the well. Child abuse is not the same as corporeal punishment, though a parent can take it that far. Personally, I am "against" corporeal punishment because my parents and extended family didn't use it, and as such I know one can raise a properly adjusted child without resorting to such things.

I cant help but laugh at what is happening to our country, and this is one of the reasons, along with selling our jobs to China (coughWalmartcough).
Click to expand...

Yes, 'twould be preferable that the teenaged parents could leave school early to work their lives away in factories.
 
SteveHamilton said:
I personally believe its disciplin to a point. As long as there isnt blood, you should be able to hit your child for doing wrong, otherwise we are endangering the welfare of out society. Dont get me wrong, but I realized that the reason these laws are being passed are because these idiots remember their parents backhanding them across the room, and the second one of those guys get into power "no more child abuse" =p. I cant help but laugh at what is happening to our country, and this is one of the reasons, along with selling our jobs to China (coughWalmartcough).
Click to expand...

Why just kids? Surely we should be allowed to physically punish adults as well? No more prisons, just give them 100 lashes in public! Hell yeah!

Or not.

In my country, Norway, corporal punishment of children is strictly forbidden. Not even a swat on the bottom as punishment is allowed.

And I think that's a good thing. No person gets better from getting physical pain. And as you may notice, Norwegian society isn't collapsing because of this. Crime is low, murder rate near zero, we haven't experienced a recession, etc.

I think if you believe if only we were allowed to beat up kids, then everything would be better, you're not only wrong but you're looking for simple solutions.
 
gph said:
As to parenting, the moment you raise your hand to strike a kid is the moment your mental faculties are proven inadequate. You are unfit to raise children in our societies.
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And yet, you were fit to raise them for the first few hundred thousand years of societal existence.

I'm no big fan of beating children, but if it were all that bad, we wouldn't have survived to dominate the planet. It's hard for me to get all worked up about a practice that has been part of human society since the dawn of time.


As for the first part of the OP, asking if teen parenting is wrong. I don't think it's "wrong", I just don't think teenagers who get pregnant, or who sire children are generally happy. Ask them 30 years later if they are happy that they had children at fifteen. If the majority say yes, that tells you something, but it would surprise me.
 
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Meadmaker said:
And yet, you were fit to raise them for the first few hundred thousand years of societal existence.

I'm no big fan of beating children, but if it were all that bad, we wouldn't have survived to dominate the planet.
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Is that an argument or a joke?

By that logic having sex with them mustn't be all that bad either because, well, here we are dominating the planet.

???
 
Meadmaker said:
And yet, you were fit to raise them for the first few hundred thousand years of societal existence.

I'm no big fan of beating children, but if it were all that bad, we wouldn't have survived to dominate the planet. It's hard for me to get all worked up about a practice that has been part of human society since the dawn of time.
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What kind of data are there on parenting for more than a few millennia ago?
Human societies have been generally nasty for most of history, it could have something to do with upbringing.

As for the first part of the OP, asking if teen parenting is wrong. I don't think it's "wrong", I just don't think teenagers who get pregnant, or who sire children are generally happy. Ask them 30 years later if they are happy that they had children at fifteen. If the majority say yes, that tells you something, but it would surprise me.
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To the best of my knowledge teenagers makes comparatively poor parents in our current society. It sounds like a great idea to wait until you have the necessary education to support yourself and the kids.
 
SteveHamilton said:
Is it wrong? Think about it, not more then 200+ years ago, it was natural for a 12/13 year old girl to have an arranged marrage, 400+ years ago, most girls were moms around the age of 15.

<snip>

Opinions? Explanations? Anything?
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For one thing, some of your premises might merit further investigation.

This subject came up somewhat tangentially in another thread awhile back. Out of curiosity I did some 'quick 'n dirty' research, since I had a volume of family genealogy within reach.

It covers my father's family from 1640, when the first in the line from England settled in Newbury, MA, through 1882. I picked a dozen or so of the earliest marriages in the book at random and tallied the ages of the brides. I'm not going to do it over again right now, but as memory serves (and somewhat to my surprise) only one or two were even under eighteen, and the median age was closer to the mid-twenties than the 'teens. A few were closer to thirty for their first marriage.

I repeated the exercise for the mid and late 1700s with similar results.

These were all pretty much salt-of-the-earth type farmers and a few merchants, sailors and soldiers ... as typical a cross-section of colonial America as could be asked for.

The child bride was not quite as common as we are prone to believe these days.
 
gph said:
Is that an argument or a joke?

By that logic having sex with them mustn't be all that bad either because, well, here we are dominating the planet.

???
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that having sex with pre-pubescent children has always been considered abnornmal behavior. I'm willing to listen to evidence that any society has encouraged or tolerated it, but I don't think there will be any. As for having sex with post-pubescents, see the portion of the OP that refers to teen parenting.
 
Toke said:
What kind of data are there on parenting for more than a few millennia ago?
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To be fair, not much. I'm just guessing that since the records that we have indicate that corporal punishment is normal, that it has been that way ever since the development of modern humans.


Human societies have been generally nasty for most of history, it could have something to do with upbringing.
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Human life has been generally nasty. I don't encourage spanking or anything more harsh, but, as I said, I'm not willing to call someone a "bad parent" just because they do it. A lot of us who were spanked turned out ok, and that is true for more generations going back in time than we can remember. It really can't be all that bad.
 
Meadmaker said:
I'm pretty sure that having sex with pre-pubescent children has always been considered abnornmal behavior. I'm willing to listen to evidence that any society has encouraged or tolerated it, but I don't think there will be any. As for having sex with post-pubescents, see the portion of the OP that refers to teen parenting.
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That's not the point.

My point is you can plug just about anything into your logic of "if it were all that bad, we wouldn't have survived to dominate the planet". Rape, infanticide, you name it, we are dominating now therefore they mustn't be all that bad.
 
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