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Support for Scottish Independence falling

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
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http://www.newstatesman.com/2009/11/poll-independence-support
Poll finds 57 per cent oppose independence as Salmond prepares to publish referendum plans

Support for Scottish independence has collapsed as Alex Salmond prepares to unveil plans for a referendum next year, a new poll has shown.

The YouGov/Daily Telegraph poll found that 57 per cent would vote against independence, with only 29 per cent in favour. 15 per cent were undecided or would not vote.
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Damn, tough spot for Salmond.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
http://www.newstatesman.com/2009/11/poll-independence-support


Damn, tough spot for Salmond.
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Directly related to the recession and the UK situation IMO. Also the results will tend to show a fear of a Tory govt next year which will shift support to Labour (futile though that may turrn out to be)

Not tough at all for Salmond. He wants a vote. I feel its tougher for those who want to deny the vote. Most recent polls have supported the referendum if not the Indepedence issue.
 
The hell with it.
I'm declaring UDI for the Peoples' Republic of Lanarkshire.
 
I note in these things a presumption that a simple 50.01% majority (and almost certainly temporary at that) is "enough" to justify a splitoff. Is that the case here, or would they want a supermajority? I know those who will gain much power after a split would probably be in favor of a simple majority (one could make this as a prediction), but there's a certain interest of containing political unit in not simply giving up all rights possessed by the remaining 49% just because a nearly equal number of their neighbors want to take away their rights.
 
Beerina said:
I note in these things a presumption that a simple 50.01% majority (and almost certainly temporary at that) is "enough" to justify a splitoff. Is that the case here, or would they want a supermajority? I know those who will gain much power after a split would probably be in favor of a simple majority (one could make this as a prediction), but there's a certain interest of containing political unit in not simply giving up all rights possessed by the remaining 49% just because a nearly equal number of their neighbors want to take away their rights.
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A past referendum on Scottissh issues was skewed in favour of Unionists. A simple majority did not pass it.
 
I think a large majority would be necessary.
If I was an encumbent leader of a newly independant Scotland, I wouldnt be very happy governing a country with just under 50% of its population not wanting it to exist.
Maybe the SNP should consider redefining the Scotland they want and where its borders should be.
:)
 
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What I think is interesting is that just under a third of the nation want independence. That's a sizeable proportion, and something that the unionist parties (whatever their political colours) would overlook at their peril.
 
Directly related to the recession and the UK situation IMO.
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The realisation that without huge bailouts from UK taxpayers the banking collapse in Scotland would have ruined it as a country, had it been independant.
 
scissorhands said:
The realisation that without huge bailouts from UK taxpayers the banking collapse in Scotland would have ruined it as a country, had it been independant.
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So? Without huge oil revenues................

Blaah blah blah

HDI index blah blah blah
 
scissorhands said:
The realisation that without huge bailouts from UK taxpayers the banking collapse in Scotland would have ruined it as a country, had it been independant.
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Evidence? Comments about HBOS, which the last time I looked had it's HQ in England? Review of oil revenues?

No? I thought not.
 
And who was posting in this thread instead of watching BBC2 then? (The Conspiracy Files.)

Rolfe.
 
Has there been any "official" word from the Scottish Government/SNP on what the criteria would be i.e. turnout and percentage of vote?

ETA: And before I get jumped on "official" is in quotes because I know that they haven't put forward their actual legislation etc. so it can't be official in the sense of having passed a vote in parliament..
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
Damn, tough spot for Salmond.
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The thing that really bugs me about independence parties like the SNP in Scotland, is that they are just waiting for that one single moment in time when they think the population will vote in favour of breaking away from the rest of the UK.

What about the fact that over the course of several years the overwhelming majority of the population of Scotland has not supported breaking away from the UK?

~
HypnoPsi
 
I don't think you can say that the SNP is just waiting - it has for years been very actively trying to change the mind of the Scottish people to get them to support independence.
 
scissorhands said:
I think a large majority would be necessary.
If I was an encumbent leader of a newly independant Scotland, I wouldnt be very happy governing a country with just under 50% of its population not wanting it to exist.
Maybe the SNP should consider redefining the Scotland they want and where its borders should be.
:)
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We already know exactly where the borders are between Scotland and England - in fact we have a whole region of the country called "The Borders" :).

But, yes, see my post immediately above on this issue.

As another thought though... the The UK/British Government also has to deal with the fact that a good percentage of Scots want Scotland to be independent nation...

My personal opinion - is that the solution lies in the Scottish Parliament and in how much autonomy it should have.

In otherwords, so long as the pro-independents don't interfere with the pro-unionists wish to return MP's to Westminster the pro-unionists shouldn't interfere with the pro-independents desire for more fiscal and legal autonomy for the Scottish Parliament.

Alas, if only it were that simple....

~
HypnoPsi
 
Darat said:
I don't think you can say that the SNP is just waiting - it has for years been very actively trying to change the mind of the Scottish people to get them to support independence.
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The SNP only need to achieve one good voting result in a referendum.
Then its all over.

The rest of the Scottish population who dont want independence, need to get the correct voting results every time.
There is no obvious "going back" to the union.


Isnt there a saying about that somewhere?

Personally I hope that there will be a referendum and the results mean we can all move on and consider this matter closed.

Unfortunately, if they lose, 10 years down the line the SNP will still be pressing for another referendum.
 
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I would support further devolution of powers to the Scottish parliament, and at the same time doing so for the rest of the countries and regions of the UK, I think the UK would be a better country (in terms of supporting the needs of its citizens) if it was much more formally "federated".
 
scissorhands said:
The SNP only need to one good voting result.
Then its all over.
The rest of the Scottish population who dont want independence, need to get the correct voting results every time.
There is no obvious "going back" to the union.

Isnt there a saying about that somewhere?
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It is a good point - if the SNP can get the question that Alex Salmon has in his head (he knows what question it is but he won't tell us yet) onto the referendum and the population say "no we don't want to be independent" will the SNP say "fair cop" and stop trying to move Scotland to independence?
 
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