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Suicide

Smidge

Thinker
S
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
210
Is suicide ever justified or can there be a justification for someone committing suicide?
 
A painful terminal disease such as incurable cancer or emphesema come to mind as reasons to do oneself in. I once worked in a mental hospital and a brain damaged man jumped off a building and killed himself but I'm not sure he was completely incurable.
 
Justifiable to whom? Suicide in the sense that I believe you are using it is a very selfish act; why does the person committing the act have to justify it to anybody?
 
From another thread on the same topic:
Tricky said:
I think suicide is never a sin. If there is one thing that you can truly call your own, it is your own life. Choosing to end it prematurely is a decision that only the person can make.

It may be tragic and/or selfish, but still, ultimately, a personal decision. Or it may be honorable, as Iacchus has pointed out.

I know one person who killed himself for whom I have nothing but respect. He had been diagnosed with inoperable cancer. But it was a slow-moving kind, and he was destined to put himself and his family through a long, painful, expensive and hopeless ordeal. I totally respect his decision.

Frankly, if I was facing some hopeless, mind-destroying disease, like Alzheimers, I would not want to put my family through that, realizing that after a while, it wouldn't even be "me", but just my body.
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But why don't you tell us why you are asking this question, Kitten? My own feeling is that suicide is usually a mistake, and one that cannot be corrected.
 
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Apologies for replicating a similar topic. I did a search beforehand and didn't find a 'suicide', 'justified', 'justification' thread.
 
kittenindublin said:
Apologies for replicating a similar topic. I did a search beforehand and didn't find a 'suicide', 'justified', 'justification' thread.
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No need to apologize, you are not the first, and doubtless won't be the last, to contemplate that question.

DR
 
dying and finding out that the Christian concept of Heaven was accurate would make me commit suicide.. oh wait....
 
Hmm--

An act would be morally justified if it results in an overall decrease in human suffering or increase in well-being. In the case of terminal illness, I'd say the circumstances are sufficient to justify it if the person is suffering constantly. The important thing though is that it must be an act of choice, and it must not harm those around the person.

Since this is a religious question as well, let's consider the religious groups that drive their followers to commit suicide and murder others in the process. These could be Islamic suicide bombers, or members of a suicide cult. Here I would have to argue that if a person wishes to die so badly that nothing would change his or her mind, it would be better if that person took his or her own life, and left everyone else the hell alone.

The same goes for those sociopath gunmen, who have gone on suicidal rampages through schools or malls. Some of these shooters have killed themselves probably because they were too cowardly to face the consequences of their actions. If they wanted to die so badly, they should have just killed themselves and not dragged anyone else into it.


I know that's too simplistic a view, but I'm only trying to evaluate these situations in the context of the question whether suicide is ever justified.
 
kittenindublin said:
Is suicide ever justified or can there be a justification for someone committing suicide?
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The words 'justified' and 'justification' are inappropriate in this context.

If I wish to take my life, to kill myself, I shall do so and my decision to do so requires no justification.

You question would better read, "Is suicide ever rational?" The answer, of course, is 'yes'.

Here are some of the many reasons for killing myself that I could regard as rational:
  • I am in pain, pain management isn't working, and it is likely to remain the same or get worse
  • I am dying and wish to pick the time and manner of my death
  • I am ill and don't wish to burn my estate or the resources of my family and friends on efforts to prolong my life
  • I am fading away through a disease like Altzheimer's or dementia
  • I have accomplished enough, have lived enough, and wish to end my life at this time
  • I am weary of life and wish to die
  • I have outlived my mate and don't wish to live without him or her
  • I am lonely and don't wish to live like this for long
  • I am incapacitated and dependent upon others and don't wish to live like this for long
  • I wish to die as thoughtfully and as deliberately as I have lived
  • My death will accomplish something that I value
 
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kittenindublin - Why are you asking this question?

Do you have an agenda or are you truly curious?

Has a friend or family member killed himself?

Are you contemplating suicide?

To be honest, from the way you asked the question, and your use of the term 'justified', some has-an-agenda flags have been raised.
 
I miss people i know who killed themselves but I feel like its their choice to make, i dont feel like its something that has to be justified.
 
I believe that death with dignity under limited circumstances (extreme pain in a terminal illness situation, possibly others - the individuall circumstances would need to be fully documented), and just getting the opportunity to say goodbye, then quietly dying with friends and family near you, is quite acceptable, but only with the knowledge and acceptance of people who are near and dear to you.

I believe suicide in other circumstances, and using violent methods (diving off a building, jumping in front of a train or bus, blowing your brains out) is never acceptable. It is the ultimate selfish act. It hurts an untold number of people - those who find the body, those who see the action, the bus driver, family and friends who would be confused, bewildered and upset over what occured and would forever ask why did he/she do this.

Norm
 
fromdownunder said:
I believe that death with dignity under limited circumstances (extreme pain in a terminal illness situation, possibly others - the individuall circumstances would need to be fully documented), and just getting the opportunity to say goodbye, then quietly dying with friends and family near you, is quite acceptable, but only with the knowledge and acceptance of people who are near and dear to you.

I believe suicide in other circumstances, and using violent methods (diving off a building, jumping in front of a train or bus, blowing your brains out) is never acceptable. It is the ultimate selfish act. It hurts an untold number of people - those who find the body, those who see the action, the bus driver, family and friends who would be confused, bewildered and upset over what occured and would forever ask why did he/she do this.

Norm
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Must disagree with part of what you've written.

I'm not concerned with what anyone regards as 'acceptable'.

'Selfish' is not a dirty word, and I don't like it when people treat it as such.

I am absolutely against putting someone else physically at risk when killing yourself - that is simply wrong.

Apart from that, the manner of one's death is one's own business.

I'd prefer it if it accomplished by means of a painless and certain poison, but the control freaks in our society have made that difficult to legally obtain, so people often resort to messier ways of dying.

I'd prefer it if the hurt to good survivors is reduced.
 
If I'm facing a terminal disease or progressive dimensia, I think it's selfish of other people to want me to stay alive and suffer or live on as a meat puppet for them.
 
Complexity said:
Must disagree with part of what you've written.

I'm not concerned with what anyone regards as 'acceptable'.

'Selfish' is not a dirty word, and I don't like it when people treat it as such.

I am absolutely against putting someone else physically at risk when killing yourself - that is simply wrong.

Apart from that, the manner of one's death is one's own business.

I'd prefer it if it accomplished by means of a painless and certain poison, but the control freaks in our society have made that difficult to legally obtain, so people often resort to messier ways of dying.

I'd prefer it if the hurt to good survivors is reduced.
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(emphasis mine)

We are probably not very far away from total agreement, once we clearly designate what we mean by the terms we have both used. It just happens to be a subject I am a bit emotional about, and it tends to show when I post about this - I tend to rant on a little.

I am just a little concerned as to the part I bolded from your post, as it appears to be something that you disagree with me about. And I do not think I said or inferred anything of the kind. If I am misreading this, sorry and ignore this post. If I am not could you please clarify what you think I said and I will try to clear this up.

Norm
 
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Smidge said:
Is suicide ever justified or can there be a justification for someone committing suicide?
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The main problem with suicide is that it is usualy done as a solution to the experience of pain. And that people's judgement is somewhat impacted by the pain, so if you have asomething that is causing pain and you choose to end your life, that is the end of your life.

Now if someone is not reacting to situational pain and has intact judgement and can come to a dicsion I would respect that. But really, killing yourself because you got a bad grade on a paper?
 
Smidge said:
How?

In certain circumstances only, eg, due to a terminal illness, or is it justified in any circumstance?
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Well, justification will always seem to be there in that moment of irrational response and emotional flooding. I have talked to lots and lots of people who were experiencing suicidal ideation and a couple handfulls of people who acted to end thier lifes but did not terminante. It is a very final response to stress.

Yes there are some situations where someone could end thier life and not have it be a choice that they would regret, if they chose not to end thier life. IE Most people will realise after the crisis event that they had other choices than killing themselves and once they get help, they feel better.
 
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Complexity said:
The words 'justified' and 'justification' are inappropriate in this context.

If I wish to take my life, to kill myself, I shall do so and my decision to do so requires no justification.

You question would better read, "Is suicide ever rational?" The answer, of course, is 'yes'.

Here are some of the many reasons for killing myself that I could regard as rational:
  • I am in pain, pain management isn't working, and it is likely to remain the same or get worse
  • I am dying and wish to pick the time and manner of my death
  • I am ill and don't wish to burn my estate or the resources of my family and friends on efforts to prolong my life
  • I am fading away through a disease like Altzheimer's or dementia
  • I have accomplished enough, have lived enough, and wish to end my life at this time
  • I am weary of life and wish to die
  • I have outlived my mate and don't wish to live without him or her
  • I am lonely and don't wish to live like this for long
  • I am incapacitated and dependent upon others and don't wish to live like this for long
  • I wish to die as thoughtfully and as deliberately as I have lived
  • My death will accomplish something that I value
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Adding:

  • I have done something dishonourable, and my culture allows me to regain my honour by committing suicide.
  • I have done something dishonourable, and my own conviction makes me feel committing suicide will doe something to restore my honour.
Hans
 
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