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"Stupid White Men..."

Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Messages
6,513
...if they are so stupid, then why do they have ALL the money?

Regardless of the title, I finally picked up a copy of Michael Moore's latest published work. It has been on the New York Times best seller list for a while. I found it worthy enough to check out at my local library.

I am only the first chapter deep, but I can already understand why people "groan" when they hear Mr. Moore bring up the 2000 Presidential Elections and the debacle in Florida. That horse died a full mile short of the finish line, and no amount of kicking the shattered bones is going to make those race results any different.

The problem is that he discusses ample proof that the race was fixed, and the other horse received 'unnatural' support in a falsified victory...WITHOUT proper annotation, might I add.

However, even without properly investigating the absolute accuracy of his notes, I am left with this feeling that the Democratic Process failed the Majority in Florida, and thus the greater National Majority, overall.

For only the second time, in our nation's history, 'most' of the People in America did NOT vote for this President. A narrow victory in a Republican ran state, decided this Presidency, and thus overruled the National Majority. But the 'system' worked...


What does that mean? The 'System'... Well, since voters were too incompetent to demonstrate a sincere majority, We had to decide for them...?

Elections aren't EVER perfect, well unless they small...

I mean you are gonna lose 1-2 in an election with thousands. However when thousands of voters were not allowed to cast votes, hundreds of votes were 'accepted' without proper verification, and confusing ballots cause more than a 5% voter error... That election needs amendment, because it failed the majority.

So that's where he starts...

I first saw Michael Moore in his "Roger & Me", I have it right here and I am about to watch it again. In it Mr. Moore trys to get an interview with a CEO from the car industry. Along the way he interviews some of the 'common folk' and the like. All that I can say is that its "REAL". I mean, I don't know how much 'acting' went into the production, but it didn't look like much.

I think Mr. Moore suffers from an 'image' problem. A diamond covered in shitte doesn't look appealing to a woman in white gloves, regardless of its value.

Have you read this man's work, or seen any of his productions?
 
Yep, seen 'em, read 'em

I think that he is most certainly provocative (in the same way that P J O'Rourke is). He pulls together carfully selected evidence (as does everybody else) and presents a case, gradually
 
To pick a nit

King of the Americas said:
Regardless of the title, I finally picked up a copy of Michael Moore's latest published work. It has been on the New York Times best seller list for a while. I found it worthy enough to check out at my local library.

Stupid White Men is not Moore's latest published work.

Just thought you might like to know. His new one is "Dude, Where's my Country"
 
MY Bad...

...what can I say, here in the Bible belt, our libraries are mysteriously vacant when it comes to recent publications...

"Dude where's my country?"

Got it.

I think I've heard that, but it may have slipped my mind..
 
I found the book initially rather interesting, and a good source of selected quotes if you are inclined to the left.

However, I became really dissapointed with Moore when I read the chapter about thewar in the former Yugoslavia. I am myself from the former Yugoslavia and I deal with the region through my work here in the Netherlands. I thought the chapter was insultingly cheap and superficial. This now makes me think that he is the same when dealing with other issues, but as I don't know enough about these other issues it is difficult for me to judge it.

(If I am not making myself very clear it might be because I just had three glasses of champagne as we had an end-of-the-year party at work)
 
Good god, woman...

...it isn't even noon yet!? (*EDITED TO ADD* Wait..."Netherlands" 2:49 PM. My apologies My Lady)

However, I do understand what you mean. I found his first chapter a bit biased in its presentation.

I find that he covers what he knows to be true, in any manner he can. However, his presentations lack balance. There ARE 2 sides to ever issue, and I'd rather hear "points of view", and not a "pointed view".
 
Tanja said:
I found the book initially rather interesting, and a good source of selected quotes if you are inclined to the left.

However, I became really dissapointed with Moore when I read the chapter about thewar in the former Yugoslavia. I am myself from the former Yugoslavia and I deal with the region through my work here in the Netherlands. I thought the chapter was insultingly cheap and superficial. This now makes me think that he is the same when dealing with other issues, but as I don't know enough about these other issues it is difficult for me to judge it.

(If I am not making myself very clear it might be because I just had three glasses of champagne as we had an end-of-the-year party at work)


You are making yourself very clear. Cheap and superficial are what make Mike Moore, Mike Moore.
 
Tanja said:
(If I am not making myself very clear it might be because I just had three glasses of champagne as we had an end-of-the-year party at work)

There may not be room in such a work to put a whole lot of depth into the issues. His take on the American Green Party is...well... tragically naive.

We had our end-of-year party at a microbrewery last Friday, and folks drank a lot of beer. I don't drink--I had coffee... and I'm still grooving on it... everything goes very fast and gleeful, can you tell? Mmm, Coffee! CoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeCoffeeNO CARRIER
REDIALING
 
Tanja said:
I found the book initially rather interesting, and a good source of selected quotes if you are inclined to the left.

However, I became really dissapointed with Moore when I read the chapter about thewar in the former Yugoslavia. I am myself from the former Yugoslavia and I deal with the region through my work here in the Netherlands. I thought the chapter was insultingly cheap and superficial. This now makes me think that he is the same when dealing with other issues, but as I don't know enough about these other issues it is difficult for me to judge it.

(If I am not making myself very clear it might be because I just had three glasses of champagne as we had an end-of-the-year party at work)

Very clear though calling the moron a moron would have been simpler
 
I am hitting my second cup now...

COFFEECOFFEECOFFEE...

I DON'T have it every day. It wrecks your teeth, and then you gt addicted, so when you don't have it you get a headache-that's BAD.

*Have you ever roasted and ground your own beans? Now THAT is "Coffee".

Pre-roasted gourmet Starbucks/Millstone beans are "shitte".
 
Re: I am hitting my second cup now...

King of the Americas said:
COFFEECOFFEECOFFEE...

I DON'T have it every day. It wrecks your teeth, and then you gt addicted, so when you don't have it you get a headache-that's BAD.

*Have you ever roasted and ground your own beans? Now THAT is "Coffee".

Pre-roasted gourmet Starbucks/Millstone beans are "shitte".

I don't care... I get Allegro, I get Starbucks, I get various fair-exchange coffees, I get Maxwell House Instant, I get whatever's on tap at work. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
The list of "bad guys" in "Stupid White Men" makes the title inaccurate. A couple women, some blacks--even one of asian background.

Seems like the title was chosen to target an audience.
 
As per Coffee...

...all that I care is that there is a lot of it, and a bathroom nearby.

But if you haven't had the 'best' coffee yet, then let me know were I can send you a sample of 'green' coffee beans?

I am telling you, this is 'something else'.

You know how you can pop popcorn and put it in a ziplock bag, and return to it hours later, and it is still 'crunchy' but it has lost that 'fresh popped'-ness. Well, coffee is the same way. If you grind the beans up still hot, and make coffee with that...you get a 'fresh' cup of "Coffee".

The secret is achieving an 'even roast'...
 
I am myself from the former Yugoslavia and I deal with the region through my work here in the Netherlands. I thought the chapter was insultingly cheap and superficial

But, you forget: to the left, you--like other potential victims of tyrants--are merely a statistic; you don't matter.

So what if a few millions lousy Yugoslavians could die at the hand of a tyrant? So what if he totally ruined the country? It's the HUMANITARIAN PRINCIPLE of STOPPING AMERICAN AGRESSION that toppled him which is REALLY important. Never mind that Moore can't speak a word or Serbo-croatian, hasn't met a Yugoslavian in his life, and has not the slightest idea what the real issues are. He KNOWS what should have been done about Yugoslavia (nothing), and that's that. The fate of the Yugoslavians? Who gives a damn.

It's the same attitude that was evident in the anti-Iraq-war rallies. As Amir Taheri notes, when some of Saddam's Iraqi victims attempted to speak in the rally, they were shouted down by the mob (which was made out almost entirely of westerners who were never in the middle east, let alone Iraq, in their lives) as being "agents" of the "War mongering Bush".

The left loves humanity; it's people it doesn't care about.
 
I'm no right-winger, but I must maintain that Moore is not a good source for information.

He is very probe to exageration, personal attacks, taking things out of context, half-truths, slanting and flat out misinformation.

Some sound criticisms of Moore can be found here:

http://www.spinsanity.org/topics/#MichaelMoore


Basically imo, if Moore's a solution, then we have a very serious problem.
 
Why do people take such exception to Moore? He like Al Frankin, P.J.O'Rorke and Russ " hoist on my own petard" Limbaug are satirists and entertainers. If this is you source for unbiased political information (or god even sadder the basis for your outlook), you will never want for LSD.
 
DialecticMaterialist said:
I'm no right-winger, but I must maintain that Moore is not a good source for information.

He is very probe to exageration, personal attacks, taking things out of context, half-truths, slanting and flat out misinformation.

Some sound criticisms of Moore can be found here:

http://www.spinsanity.org/topics/#MichaelMoore


Basically imo, if Moore's a solution, then we have a very serious problem.

I've got to agree with you on this...Moore wants to fight fire with fire, I guess, and he falls into the same general trap that people like Ann Coulter do: ignore facts when a lie better suits your argument.

No one lies more than Ann Coulter, of course.
 
Why do people take such exception to Moore? He like Al Frankin, P.J.O'Rorke and Russ " hoist on my own petard" Limbaug are satirists and entertainers.

Er, Al Franklin is a satirist. Moore, like Limbaugh, is a self-important, ignorant political pundit.
 
Zero said:


I've got to agree with you on this...Moore wants to fight fire with fire, I guess, and he falls into the same general trap that people like Ann Coulter do: ignore facts when a lie better suits your argument.

No one lies more than Ann Coulter, of course.

I think this is exactly right.

I get the feeling with Moore and his films, that he believes in larger truths. This is of course, in his mind, justifies stretching the truth a tad.
 

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