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Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

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Caper

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Caper
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Anyone else watching this Netflix doc? I'm a few episodes in. I really want to believe this guy is innocent. But right now I can't come up with a plausible case for innocence. Anyone?
 
I'm 5 episodes in. It's really a crazy documentary. It wasn't until the end of EP.5, where I think there might be a decent shot he is innocent. His nephews confession means nothing to me. The confession is much like that of Joe Dick of the Norfolk 4.

Still skeptical though. I know that the doc wants to lead me down a path and I know I personally really want to believe he is innocent.
 
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Well I'm not going to call him innocent on the basis of a Google search. I've just started to watch the doco.
 
Someone killed the woman. Who? I'm not sure...but I'm forced to conclude it was probably Steven Avery.
 
I finished it just before Christmas.

I came away unsure of either Avery's guilt or innocence. Another name for it I suppose is reasonable doubt. I don't think there was enough to convict.

I came away absolutely sure of Dassey's innocence. That kid needs a new trial.

The documentary comes across slanted I think because none of the officers, prosecutors, or family members of Teresa Halbach would speak to the filmmakers. All you see is people from the Avery side. Regardless, there looks like some pretty shady shenanigans went on and honestly I found some of it shocking.
 
SomedayGirl said:
I came away absolutely sure of Dassey's innocence. That kid needs a new trial.
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I'm only watching Episode 4 at the moment, but I am finding it very distressing - the way Dassey was treated was unbelievable. The amazing thing is that the detectives and investigators obviously had no inkling that what they were doing was wrong as they knew everything they did was being recorded and obviously had no problem with that. And his lawyer was appalling.
 
Stick with it, Matthew. You'll be more than distressed.

His first lawyer was fer **** but the investigator for his lawyer...I just can't even express my contempt. And it's legal in many districts but shouldn't be - the theory of the crime proposed by the prosecution is completely different from Avery's to Dassey's trials. Even though they conflict, the result is two convictions. It's mindboggling.
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What I find fascinating is that the series commenced filming 10 years ago. No trying to cobble together loosely connected sources years after the event, we have real people behaving in real time. Very well made.
 
Matthew Best said:
I'm only watching Episode 4 at the moment, but I am finding it very distressing - the way Dassey was treated was unbelievable. The amazing thing is that the detectives and investigators obviously had no inkling that what they were doing was wrong as they knew everything they did was being recorded and obviously had no problem with that. And his lawyer was appalling.
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The police interrogation of Dassey was disgraceful. It should have been rejected as evidence. And that's only the bit that's recorded! Goodness knows what the kid was subjected to before the cameras were turned on.
 
Caper said:
Anyone else watching this Netflix doc? I'm a few episodes in. I really want to believe this guy is innocent. But right now I can't come up with a plausible case for innocence. Anyone?
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After trawling the internet for ideas I discovered this.

Framing is the least of it. Somebody killed this woman. If it wasn't Avery, it was the cops. Everything I have learned about this case tells me it was the cops. They murdered her in cold blood and burned her body. They pinned it on Avery so they could get out from under a massive lawsuit they were sure to lose.

So, I look at it this way: if I lived up there, I'd a hell of a lot rather have Avery on the street than one of those cops in a patrol car, following me on the highway.
 
Samson said:
After trawling the internet for ideas I discovered this.

Framing is the least of it. Somebody killed this woman. If it wasn't Avery, it was the cops. Everything I have learned about this case tells me it was the cops. They murdered her in cold blood and burned her body. They pinned it on Avery so they could get out from under a massive lawsuit they were sure to lose.

So, I look at it this way: if I lived up there, I'd a hell of a lot rather have Avery on the street than one of those cops in a patrol car, following me on the highway.
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So what's your view? Did the cops frame Avery? What evidence do you have? Have you watched the documentary or are you just posting the musings of some random bozo on the web?

Not a massive discovery by the way.
 
lionking said:
So what's your view? Did the cops frame Avery? What evidence do you have? Have you watched the documentary or are you just posting the musings of some random bozo on the web?

Not a massive discovery by the way.
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I know nothing about the case, but was interested to try to answer Caper.
 
lionking said:
The police interrogation of Dassey was disgraceful. It should have been rejected as evidence. And that's only the bit that's recorded! Goodness knows what the kid was subjected to before the cameras were turned on.
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Actually most of his interrogations were taped and they're fascinating, headache- and rage-inducing reading. Both written and video versions can be found here:

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/dassey_confessions_links.html

lionking, I don't think officers framed Avery in the traditional sense. I don't believe they killed Teresa Halbach and then placed evidence at his place. I think she was killed by someone, the cops believe it is Avery but the case is flimsy so they augmented it by planting evidence that would point to his guilt. The take down of Dassey is just collateral damage on that path.
 
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SomedayGirl said:
lionking, I don't think officers framed Avery in the traditional sense. I don't believe they killed Teresa Halbach and then placed evidence at his place. I think she was killed by someone, the cops believe it is Avery but the case is flimsy so they augmented it by planting evidence that would point to his guilt. The take down of Dassey is just collateral damage on that path.
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I think we had extensive discussion on the "other" thread over what you should call it when police "frame" someone who is guilty. I don't think there was ever a unanimous decision on that.
 
Matthew, I'm sorry but I don't know which thread you mean. I was just trying to clarify that I think the officers in Avery's case did plant evidence but not to create a case but rather to enhance one they thought they had.

You may not be there yet but during closing arguments the special prosecutor tells the jury (paraphrasing):

If you don't find that Steven Avery killed Teresa Halbach, you're saying the police did it. I personally don't believe those are the only two options.
 
It's one of the many sidebar discussions from the Knox/Sollecito thread.

I think I was agreeing with you. It seems to me (I'm only up to Episode 7 so far) that it's conceivable that Avery is in fact guilty, but even more likely that the police planted evidence. Just because the latter is true, doesn't make the former impossible.
 
Yikes, THAT thread. lol I've checked into it periodically but it seems very circular and persinickety so I haven't kept up with it.

As I said above, I think Avery may have done it. I don't think so to the level of beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty. If you disregard the evidence that is most shady (the key, the bullet, and Avery's blood in the vehicle) it's even harder for me to get there.

One bit of evidence the series left out - sweat with DNA matching Avery was found on the hood latch of the RAV4. Personally I put that in the key/bullet/blood pile. There were no prints of Avery's anywhere on the vehicle including there, Avery was clearly not the neatest person, and was apparently quite the sweat-er. A sock or teeshirt from the house rubbed on the spot could account for it.
 
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